Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:31 pm  

Wire_Yed wrote:

for goal decisions or if play has stopped and you want to know if it was a foul or if you should card someone like today at the chile game, what's the problem ?

There is none..... only in the mind of FIFA.
Although I don't think it should go down to the minutiae in the game, just key decisions. Otherwise what's a ref for???
The fact of the matter is refs NEED help...the game is so fast the amount of money so vast...hence potential for cheating so great that they (refs) deserve video support.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:11 pm  

Wire_Yed wrote:

for goal decisions or if play has stopped and you want to know if it was a foul or if you should card someone like today at the chile game, what's the problem ?

Because every single decision will be questioned and argued over. Throw-in on the half way line, each side will claim it and bitch if it's against them.

Just think back to England's last game. IMO Johnson committed two bookable offences in the first half. He didn't get a yellow. A Slovakian committed one bookable offence against him and promptly went in the book. The Slovakian bench would've been rightly pi55ed over that, but it passed without incident. In an age of video replay they're going to raise hell over the clear and blatant difference between the way the sides were treated.

If VR is allowed in-game then clubs will have teams of people watching the monitors to make sure a single decision isn't given against them. If a goal's scored against a side it won't just be the incident in question that's looked at, the actions of all 22 players will be scanned. A player's running 30m from goal, running to the goal unchallenged, sides will be looking at the defender in the other half of the field who responded to sledging by giving the opposition striker a little shove.

ATM decisions go for you, decisions go against you. You've got to pretty much accept the good with the bad and just get on with it. That's not going to be the case with video refs. Every decision the ref makes will be up for challenging.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:37 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Because every single decision will be questioned and argued over. Throw-in on the half way line, each side will claim it and bitch if it's against them.

Just think back to England's last game. IMO Johnson committed two bookable offences in the first half. He didn't get a yellow. A Slovakian committed one bookable offence against him and promptly went in the book. The Slovakian bench would've been rightly pi55ed over that, but it passed without incident. In an age of video replay they're going to raise hell over the clear and blatant difference between the way the sides were treated.

If VR is allowed in-game then clubs will have teams of people watching the monitors to make sure a single decision isn't given against them. If a goal's scored against a side it won't just be the incident in question that's looked at, the actions of all 22 players will be scanned. A player's running 30m from goal, running to the goal unchallenged, sides will be looking at the defender in the other half of the field who responded to sledging by giving the opposition striker a little shove.

ATM decisions go for you, decisions go against you. You've got to pretty much accept the good with the bad and just get on with it. That's not going to be the case with video refs. Every decision the ref makes will be up for challenging.

No they won't.... just as they aren't other sports. In particular rugby league and cricket...oh and tennis...oh and just about anything else progressive that is not stuck in the 'you just have to put up with it' camp. Come up to date FFS...Where there's a will there's a way. Mankind is all about improvement and technology can help in sport as elsewhere..
The VR evidence would have strict limitations on what was being looked for....mainly cheating in the action of goalscoring and penalties...the rest would be up to the ref ALONE at the time, but reviewable after the event for unfair punishments or blatent acts of cheating or thuggery.
What is hard about that?
And besides which.... the right way is to try it and review it...that's the scientific way.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:45 pm  

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:50 pm  

flipper wrote:

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:17 pm  

Stand-Offish wrote:

No they won't.... just as they aren't other sports. In particular rugby league and cricket...oh and tennis...oh and just about anything else progressive that is not stuck in the 'you just have to put up with it' camp.

How many different things are the umpires in cricket and tennis judging on? They're looking at a few very specific things.

You simply cannot compare the sport of football with cricket and tennis.

There are many similarities with RL, but RL has a simple remedy for backchat in the 10m penalty which didn't catch on in football. Refs are treated massively different in football to RL refs.

Come up to date FFS...Where there's a will there's a way. Mankind is all about improvement and technology can help in sport as elsewhere..

Technology can help. It can also screw things up.

The VR evidence would have strict limitations on what was being looked for....mainly cheating in the action of goalscoring and penalties...

But if VR technology is so awesome then why not introduce it for everything? Why is it just the major decisions that VR is used?

If a referee makes a few small errors it can be enough to make sure a side doesn't get the chance to score a goal. The lino wrongly calls a player offside, that's a chance at goal wiped off. The defender and attacker clash, the referee sides with the defender and gives him the free kick, but the VR replay shows the attacker was totally innocent and the clash was deliberately created by the defender.

the rest would be up to the ref ALONE at the time, but reviewable after the event for unfair punishments or blatent acts of cheating or thuggery.

Theirry Henry handles the ball a couple of times against Ireland and he's up there with Maradona as one of the biggest cheats ever. The Irish spend months whining over it, they demand a replay and cry a river when they don't get it.

Brazilian in the World Cup handles the ball twice in the World Cup match. No one gives a to55. It's just a difficult piece of control that he was lucky not to be whistled for.

Henry's a total cheat. No one gives a to55 about Brazilian as he was just lucky the ref made an error.

What is hard about that?
And besides which.... the right way is to try it and review it...that's the scientific way.

You don't to stick your hand in a tigers mouth to know it'll rip your arm off. You don't need to know that footballers, managers and supporters are whining bitches who will whine over anything.

Re: Re: : Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:23 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

Free kick for the handball/offside? simple.

No. Because the argument for goal line technology comes in, but then there will be use of the video replay for other things such as offside and handball. But what happens if a goal is given for handball/offside, but there was no debate for goal line technology, does that mean we go to referees for every offside/whatever goal? That is where the can of worms open, because, as we see in football right now, players try to push the rules as much as possible, whether it's underhand tactics or blatant cheating, it wouldn't take long for video technology to be abused.

I don't want every call to be sent to the video ref, but once they start sending them for goals, things will escalate. What happens if a team score directly from a free kick that should never have been given due to a blatant incorrect decision by the ref? Does that get allowed?

It's Fifa's and referee's biggest problem; consistency. That's the biggest flaw in the rules, every ref views things differently, everything is open to perspective and the consistency in decisions is continually being criticized. That kick that Torres received by Ponce would have got a red by most refs in world football, but that ref felt it was only worthy of a yellow, whilst the 'trip' that got the player sent off was clearly an accident, but the ref deemed it worthy of a yellow. It's confusing and until every ref is singing from the same hymn sheet, including second/fourth officials, then they will always be open to criticism from both sides.

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:52 pm  

South American football resurgent? All teams through with only one defeat, Chile losing to Spain tonight in a game that could actually have gone either way, happily they went through anyway because they are great to watch.

Obviously Argentina and Brazil have always been powers, but the others have disappointed over the last few tournaments - they all seem to be more than the sum of their individual parts, in direct contrast to some of the European "powers".

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:56 pm  

Asim wrote:

South American football resurgent? All teams through with only one defeat, Chile losing to Spain tonight in a game that could actually have gone either way, happily they went through anyway because they are great to watch.

Obviously Argentina and Brazil have always been powers, but the others have disappointed over the last few tournaments - they all seem to be more than the sum of their individual parts, in direct contrast to some of the European "powers".

Most people in Europe just seem to care about their club sides and this is probably starting to filter into the players deep down, who knows, all i know is the quality of international football is gash compared to champions league

Re: FIFA World Cup 2010 : Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:02 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

How many different things are the umpires in cricket and tennis judging on? They're looking at a few very specific things.

You simply cannot compare the sport of football with cricket and tennis.

There are many similarities with RL, but RL has a simple remedy for backchat in the 10m penalty which didn't catch on in football. Refs are treated massively different in football to RL refs.

Technology can help. It can also screw things up.

But if VR technology is so awesome then why not introduce it for everything? Why is it just the major decisions that VR is used?

If a referee makes a few small errors it can be enough to make sure a side doesn't get the chance to score a goal. The lino wrongly calls a player offside, that's a chance at goal wiped off. The defender and attacker clash, the referee sides with the defender and gives him the free kick, but the VR replay shows the attacker was totally innocent and the clash was deliberately created by the defender.

Theirry Henry handles the ball a couple of times against Ireland and he's up there with Maradona as one of the biggest cheats ever. The Irish spend months whining over it, they demand a replay and cry a river when they don't get it.

Brazilian in the World Cup handles the ball twice in the World Cup match. No one gives a to55. It's just a difficult piece of control that he was lucky not to be whistled for.

Henry's a total cheat. No one gives a to55 about Brazilian as he was just lucky the ref made an error.

You don't to stick your hand in a tigers mouth to know it'll rip your arm off. You don't need to know that footballers, managers and supporters are whining bitches who will whine over anything.

So you don't try it because you know what the outcome will be?
How scientific is that?
If, as you assert, the outcome is as YOU predict then you should embrace a test. What is there for you to fear....except perhaps being totally wrong.
Me? I don't mind being wrong ...if I am shown to be wrong scientifically....but you?
You don't have to try something to know it won't work and would sooner compare it to sticking something in a tiger's mouth.....as a fooking complete diversion.
God it's a wonder we ever evolved.

If you want to keep it the level of player A farted and player B objected....you are completely missing the point.
The whole point is to iron out anomalies of cheating...not to rule the game by a camera.

The Irish have good reason to feel aggrieved...and it's fook all to do with whining...that's your slant on it. I prefer to call it injustice and yes we do care about other people like Brazilians cheating...it matters more when it affects us directly...you can see that can't you? But it needs to be addressed.

People who just accept cheating as one of those things that has to be suffered for the overall good...'rough with smooth'.. are condoning it..
But eh, we can't do anything about...because you....and your precious FIFA say so.....we'll see.
Fast forward a few years....