Re: Another Darts Thread : Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:02 pm  

Up the Dons wrote:

Because i like to watch sport knowing any outcome is possible..Taylor is unbeatable at the minute making for poor watching

Fair enough. I take that point on board mate, It's a shame 'cos I know how much you enjoyed your darts. We've had many a discussion on here about it.

I get where you are coming from but to be honest this week at Blackpool there's been some superb games, the quality of darts now is superb, it just proves how good Taylor is. The likes of Manley, Mardle and Part just turning up at events is long gone, they need to be able to compete and havn't been able too for a long while.

Re: Another Darts Thread : Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:37 pm  

Very true Dan...to be honest i do most of my posting on a darts group on FB these days..but im going to start posting on here more as i miss your opinions and guys like Dave Lister, Mister Lee..hope he is still around.

Your right in what you say...it actually makes Taylors achievements all the more impressive, i just thought darts had hit a golden period 2 years ago with so many people winning majors, yes its up to everyone to raise their game, lets hope it does, because darts is in a golden period..just want to see competiton

Re: Another Darts Thread : Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:34 pm  

Up the Dons wrote:

Very true Dan...to be honest i do most of my posting on a darts group on FB these days..but im going to start posting on here more as i miss your opinions and guys like Dave Lister, Mister Lee..hope he is still around.

I had wondered where you'd gone to be honest mate, everytime this thread got going when a tournament came up you wern't around. Out of interest what's the name of the group on FB you post on, might join that. It's nice to have discussion with people who not only enjoy but are knowledgeable about darts. We've had many discussions about Manley/Part in the past.

Up the Dons wrote:

Your right in what you say...it actually makes Taylors achievements all the more impressive, i just thought darts had hit a golden period 2 years ago with so many people winning majors, yes its up to everyone to raise their game, lets hope it does, because darts is in a golden period..just want to see competiton

To be honest I think the only thing lacking in darts now is different players winning the majors. Taylor and Barney aside, the PDC boast the likes of King, Wade, Jenkins, Lewis, Whitlock, LLoyd, Hamilton, Osbourne, Anderson, Painter, Nicholson, Klaasen - IMO anyone of these players are capable of winning a TV major and there's a hell of a lot more besides these who are also capable of throwing a challenge down. We've now got the best group of darts players we've ever been able to watch. A few years ago people would never have dreamed of a 9 darter, now we expect to see multiple 9 darters in a tournament. 100 plus averages are now expected, it's unbelievable how the game's developed, if we can get a few different winners of these majors we can definately have that golden period back.

Re: Another Darts Thread : Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:29 am  

Dan_FC wrote:

I had wondered where you'd gone to be honest mate, everytime this thread got going when a tournament came up you wern't around. Out of interest what's the name of the group on FB you post on, might join that. It's nice to have discussion with people who not only enjoy but are knowledgeable about darts. We've had many discussions about Manley/Part in the past.

To be honest I think the only thing lacking in darts now is different players winning the majors. Taylor and Barney aside, the PDC boast the likes of King, Wade, Jenkins, Lewis, Whitlock, LLoyd, Hamilton, Osbourne, Anderson, Painter, Nicholson, Klaasen - IMO anyone of these players are capable of winning a TV major and there's a hell of a lot more besides these who are also capable of throwing a challenge down. We've now got the best group of darts players we've ever been able to watch. A few years ago people would never have dreamed of a 9 darter, now we expect to see multiple 9 darters in a tournament. 100 plus averages are now expected, it's unbelievable how the game's developed, if we can get a few different winners of these majors we can definately have that golden period back.

Would not say the list of possible winners (or even finalists) in majors is that long to be fair and Jenkins for one seems on the slippery slope that sent Manley, Mardle and Part out of big time darts. A lot of players do not play on TV as they do in floor events (Osbourne, Caven and Walsh probably being the players most suceptable) and the likes of Lloyd, Painter, Hamilton and Lewis although capable of performing on the big stage fall into the same problem as those already mentioned when they face Taylor (or to a lesser extent face a Wade or a Barney).

I guess alot of sport's success is how mentally confident and prepared you are but I still think that big money being there for just making last 8's and such like does not help as players can make a great living without going that extra yard and having a real winning mentality.

The only players I'd really rate consistantly in big events are Taylor, Barney and Wade (though both tend to lose interest too easily and let outside factors effect their game), King (when he does not get agitated by the crowd) and Whitlock with Anderson the next in line as he improves getting used to the more volatile atmosphere in PDC rather than BDO terms (a season in the Premier League should see him right up there pitching).

If the likes of Hamilton, Osbourne, Lewis, Klassen, Painter etc were really going to be there fighting towards the end of tournaments I think they would have showed that by now.

Lloyd is a slightly different case as he had his glory year or so and perhaps that is dragging him down that others have moved so far ahead when his game has basically stayed at a similar level and in this day and age the averages and performances he was putting in to win tournaments might get you Quarter Finals at best.

This era could well be looked at as a golden one even ignoring Taylor and the lack of new blood and young talent coming through has to be a worry as Lewis and Nicholson (though who claims credit for his Australian appretiship is open to debate) are probably the only 2 PDC success stories as every other "name" has taken the BDO route and for the moment Chisnall apart maybe, even importing people from there will not change things in terms of new potential stars.

I think the top 6 or so is likely to be very static in the next few years (Taylor, Wade, Barney, King, Whitlock and Anderson) but who make up the other 2 Premier League places or whoever finds themselves at 7 and 8 in the rankings will hopefully have to get there by making finals and beating big names but I fear that will not be the case and it will be a rotation most years where someone who has a slightly better year than the rest gets the chance of the exposure and glory of the league and then does nothing with it in future tournaments as I'd suggest happened to Klassen and Baxter recently and futher back Scholten and to a lesser degree Mardle and Manley (who it can be argued were there at times more for personality than performance).

Not all of those got in by wild card either and I think the fact Jenkins is probably still over a year and a half away from dropping out of the top 5 or 6 when it seems his heart is not in it anymore is a fault on the rankings and perhaps if it was a one not two year system the likes of Mardle, Manley and Part might not have slided out so dramatically and might have been able to fight through a downturn in fortunes and get back in the right direction. Perhaps a much more volatile rankings table is what is needed as I doubt it would effect the very top end but it could create much more competiveness lower down and not shoot players into oblivion which they can see coming a year in advance so lose confidence and form even more dramatically and others can see due reward for their efforts (and I am not talking in money terms) when they hit a purple patch and hopefully some can kick on from their as Whitlock has done.

[Chris71]

Re: Another Darts Thread : Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:51 am  

Dan_FC wrote:

Up the Dons wrote:

To be honest I think the only thing lacking in darts now is different players winning the majors. Taylor and Barney aside, the PDC boast the likes of King, Wade, Jenkins, Lewis, Whitlock, LLoyd, Hamilton, Osbourne, Anderson, Painter, Nicholson, Klaasen - IMO anyone of these players are capable of winning a TV major and there's a hell of a lot more besides these who are also capable of throwing a challenge down. We've now got the best group of darts players we've ever been able to watch. A few years ago people would never have dreamed of a 9 darter, now we expect to see multiple 9 darters in a tournament. 100 plus averages are now expected, it's unbelievable how the game's developed, if we can get a few different winners of these majors we can definately have that golden period back.

For me the only thing lacking is the effort the players other than Taylor put in away from the tournaments. Seems to me from what I see, hear and read is that Taylor spends as much time as he can practising day in day out to hone his game and keep it tight where as others by their own admission dont put in the same effort.

There are many players who could match Taylor like the ones you mention but they all fall short of the extra that Taylor goes to, if they want to reach his level and be genuine competitors to him then they have to work at it. Even James Wade in a interview not so long back mentioned this as part of Taylors dominance over everyone, even Barney said his game has suffered this year as he hadnt put the time in or had the focus.

Re: Another Darts Thread : Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:03 am  

[quote="Dan_FC"] Out of interest what's the name of the group on FB you post on, might join that.


Its PDC Home of world darts..group picture has about 11 players on it with Beaton the most prominant, its a good group.if you look in the officers bit you will see me, my tag gives me away

Re: Another Darts Thread : Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:06 am  

espanyolswan wrote:

Perhaps a much more volatile rankings table is what is needed as I doubt it would effect the very top end but it could create much more competiveness lower down and not shoot players into oblivion which they can see coming a year in advance so lose confidence and form even more dramatically and others can see due reward for their efforts (and I am not talking in money terms) when they hit a purple patch and hopefully some can kick on from their as Whitlock has done.

I think the system is preety good as it is, yes its a 2 year system.....but its a 1 year system in effect for the 17-32 to qualify for most majors, allowing players to get to majors if they are good enough fairly quickly.

Re: Another Darts Thread : Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:56 am  

Up the Dons wrote:

Very true Dan...to be honest i do most of my posting on a darts group on FB these days..but im going to start posting on here more as i miss your opinions and guys like Dave Lister, Mister Lee..hope he is still around.

I'm still here fella, though not posted much. It's gone a bit boring now since me and Dave Lister don't argue anymore!

Agree with you in a way that the PDC is getting a bit boring now. There are still some fantastic matches but the tournament always ends with the same result; Taylor blowing everyone away. Yes, he is the greatest player ever, yes he is playing at the top of his game at the moment, but I can't believe there isn't one person that can even bother to attempt to give him a game.

As Chris71 said, Taylor is known for constant practising, striving to make himself better, but could the same be said for some of his challengers? As he said in his post, James Wade has said he should practice a bit more than he should (probably Helen Chamberlain's fault!! ). Wonder if any other players put in the effort that Taylor does? I doubt it.

Re: Another Darts Thread : Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:57 am  

Chris71 wrote:

For me the only thing lacking is the effort the players other than Taylor put in away from the tournaments. Seems to me from what I see, hear and read is that Taylor spends as much time as he can practising day in day out to hone his game and keep it tight where as others by their own admission dont put in the same effort.

There are many players who could match Taylor like the ones you mention but they all fall short of the extra that Taylor goes to, if they want to reach his level and be genuine competitors to him then they have to work at it. Even James Wade in a interview not so long back mentioned this as part of Taylors dominance over everyone, even Barney said his game has suffered this year as he hadnt put the time in or had the focus.

There are some who put the hours in though, Taylor has been known to mention it when asked about it in interviews. Only at the weekend he mentioned Klaasen being in the practice rooms after being knocked out, and he's said similar of King and Anderson working hard on their game in the past few tournaments. I think the problem with some of them is the attitude that because they're resigned to not being top dog while he's around, they're happy to just be amongst the rest or wonder what the point is. That's certainly what's happened to Barneveld. Others, like Lewis, seem content to rely on their natural ability to just tread water and enjoy the lifestyle IMO.

Re: Another Darts Thread : Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:07 pm  

Up the Dons wrote:

I think the system is preety good as it is, yes its a 2 year system.....but its a 1 year system in effect for the 17-32 to qualify for most majors, allowing players to get to majors if they are good enough fairly quickly.

Fair point it's a case of how those players kick on after getting that far and unfortunatly not many do, some of it is obviously down to talent and ability but I am sure some think they have made it, pocket the £70,000 or so a year the likes of a Robert Thornton, Colin Osbourne or Andy Hamilton can make and do not have the application or desire to take the next step.

I might be totally wrong but there have been times when Wade and Barney especially have gone into tournaments totally ill prepared and disinterested but still gone along way when the players who are perhaps ranked 8-20 should be taking advantage and ruthlessly put them to the sword.