Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:56 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

You are just letting club bias cloud your judgement. Suarez is guilty if Evra takes offense to it. Surely you can see that? Life ban in order for both players I think personally.

Nah, not really. From what I've read on the matter, the term really isn't used negatively in Spanish speaking South America, it's simply a term and not a slur. From what has been reported, it seems to be a simple mix up of language and culture. Neither player should be charged with anything, and, if anything, the media should clear both of their names and accept that there isn't such a clear line with racism. I'm sure the media would love nothing more than to go all PC on Suarez, but I think the general public must be educated on the differences in culture and language, as they will just 'flip' if they hear Suarez 'called' him a negrito.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:03 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

Nah, not really. From what I've read on the matter, the term really isn't used negatively in Spanish speaking South America, it's simply a term and not a slur. From what has been reported, it seems to be a simple mix up of language and culture. Neither player should be charged with anything, and, if anything, the media should clear both of their names and accept that there isn't such a clear line with racism. I'm sure the media would love nothing more than to go all PC on Suarez, but I think the general public must be educated on the differences in culture and language, as they will just 'flip' if they hear Suarez 'called' him a negrito.

But it's used out of context so his defense doesn't stand up. From Evra's account he was using it constantly, not the odd thing here or there.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:31 pm  

So after all it seems Suarez did use a racial slur towards Evra, and it wasn't Evra 'playing the race card' as claimed on here?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:40 pm  

Karlos13 wrote:

So after all it seems Suarez did use a racial slur towards Evra, and it wasn't Evra 'playing the race card' as claimed on here?

No, repeatedly calling a grown man 'little black boy' is just banter.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:33 pm  

Saddened! wrote: But it's used out of context so his defense doesn't stand up. From Evra's account he was using it constantly, not the odd thing here or there. If a term isn't deemed offensive to somebody, and they've never been raised to believe that term is offensive, when they use it, how on earth are they supposed to know it is offensive? It's something we may struggle to understand as we live in a highly PC society and find shock from things without putting much thought into it. Read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 61881.html Although I do think they try and show some guilt on Suarez's part, it briefly explains how the term is used in his own country and seems to assume Suarez was using it to poke fun at Evra. From the way it seems, negrito is a regularly used word when talking to black people, almost like the way we use 'mate' or 'pal' in Britain. IMO, it'll be very hard for Evra to prove Suarez was guilty of being racist when the term isn't deemed racist to Suarez. It's sad for the PC brigade on here that everyone's favourite villain can't be beaten with another stick, but I hope Suarez's name is cleared and he continues to use the term negrito in banter.

Saddened! wrote: But it's used out of context so his defense doesn't stand up. From Evra's account he was using it constantly, not the odd thing here or there. If a term isn't deemed offensive to somebody, and they've never been raised to believe that term is offensive, when they use it, how on earth are they supposed to know it is offensive? It's something we may struggle to understand as we live in a highly PC society and find shock from things without putting much thought into it. Read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 61881.html Although I do think they try and show some guilt on Suarez's part, it briefly explains how the term is used in his own country and seems to assume Suarez was using it to poke fun at Evra. From the way it seems, negrito is a regularly used word when talking to black people, almost like the way we use 'mate' or 'pal' in Britain. IMO, it'll be very hard for Evra to prove Suarez was guilty of being racist when the term isn't deemed racist to Suarez. It's sad for the PC brigade on here that everyone's favourite villain can't be beaten with another stick, but I hope Suarez's name is cleared and he continues to use the term negrito in banter.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:43 pm  

Justice for the Uruguayan 1.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:45 pm  

Roddy B wrote: If a term isn't deemed offensive to somebody, and they've never been raised to believe that term is offensive, when they use it, how on earth are they supposed to know it is offensive? It's something we may struggle to understand as we live in a highly PC society and find shock from things without putting much thought into it. Read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 61881.html Although I do think they try and show some guilt on Suarez's part, it briefly explains how the term is used in his own country and seems to assume Suarez was using it to poke fun at Evra. From the way it seems, negrito is a regularly used word when talking to black people, almost like the way we use 'mate' or 'pal' in Britain. IMO, it'll be very hard for Evra to prove Suarez was guilty of being racist when the term isn't deemed racist to Suarez. It's sad for the PC brigade on here that everyone's favourite villain can't be beaten with another stick, but I hope Suarez's name is cleared and he continues to use the term negrito in banter. So if another culture is racist, you think it's okay to use it in this country? According to what you've put above the term is commonly used to make fun of black people. That, under the English social system, is classic racism. I'm completely neutral on this issue as I don't particularly like either party, but he's using a term that is specifically used to identify black people and Evra has taken offense to it, so he's being racist, whether it's okay to use it in his country or not.

Roddy B wrote: If a term isn't deemed offensive to somebody, and they've never been raised to believe that term is offensive, when they use it, how on earth are they supposed to know it is offensive? It's something we may struggle to understand as we live in a highly PC society and find shock from things without putting much thought into it. Read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 61881.html Although I do think they try and show some guilt on Suarez's part, it briefly explains how the term is used in his own country and seems to assume Suarez was using it to poke fun at Evra. From the way it seems, negrito is a regularly used word when talking to black people, almost like the way we use 'mate' or 'pal' in Britain. IMO, it'll be very hard for Evra to prove Suarez was guilty of being racist when the term isn't deemed racist to Suarez. It's sad for the PC brigade on here that everyone's favourite villain can't be beaten with another stick, but I hope Suarez's name is cleared and he continues to use the term negrito in banter. So if another culture is racist, you think it's okay to use it in this country? According to what you've put above the term is commonly used to make fun of black people. That, under the English social system, is classic racism. I'm completely neutral on this issue as I don't particularly like either party, but he's using a term that is specifically used to identify black people and Evra has taken offense to it, so he's being racist, whether it's okay to use it in his country or not.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:58 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

So if another culture is racist, you think it's okay to use it in this country? According to what you've put above the term is commonly used to make fun of black people. That, under the English social system, is classic racism.

I'm completely neutral on this issue as I don't particularly like either party, but he's using a term that is specifically used to identify black people and Evra has taken offense to it, so he's being racist, whether it's okay to use it in his country or not.

No, I never said he's using it to poke fun. I said that's what the paper 'assumes', because it does, but that doesn't mean the paper is right. We don't know exactly what was said, but Suarez even said, it's a term he's heard Evra's teammates use. If the word negrito isn't offensive and is in fact seen as quite the opposite in most cases, how can somebody be found guilty of something that they don't believe is offensive? It is a classic case of clash of cultures and a clash of language.

Look at that tweet the paper uses as an example, should Liverpool fine Dani Pacheco for calling Thiago a negrito as well?

IMO, instead of trying to point the finger and find a guilty party, if what is being reported is true, we should really be making sure neither party is deemed as guilty so both players don't have a damaged reputation after it.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:32 pm  

IF this is true I think much would depend on how many times he used the term. If he just said it once or twice then it could possibly be explained as a cultural misunderstanding. But Evra alleged that he used the term up to 10 times. Even if you allow for a certain amout of exaggeration, its hard to believe that it wasnt pointed out to him, if only by Evra, that the term is unacceptable.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:29 pm  

Roddy B wrote: If a term isn't deemed offensive to somebody, and they've never been raised to believe that term is offensive, when they use it, how on earth are they supposed to know it is offensive? It's something we may struggle to understand as we live in a highly PC society and find shock from things without putting much thought into it. Read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 61881.html Although I do think they try and show some guilt on Suarez's part, it briefly explains how the term is used in his own country and seems to assume Suarez was using it to poke fun at Evra. From the way it seems, negrito is a regularly used word when talking to black people, almost like the way we use 'mate' or 'pal' in Britain. IMO, it'll be very hard for Evra to prove Suarez was guilty of being racist when the term isn't deemed racist to Suarez. It's sad for the PC brigade on here that everyone's favourite villain can't be beaten with another stick, but I hope Suarez's name is cleared and he continues to use the term negrito in banter. Suarez is just trying to pull the wool over our eyes. He's been playing in Holland prior to England so I think it's fair to assume that he is familiar with the derogatory use of the word n***** (of which negrito appears to be a hispanic variation). He's trying to use some sort of cultural difference to suggest that he wasn't using a term likely to cause racial offence. Had he used the word n***** he would quite rightly have not been able to claim it was a cultural difference/misunderstanding. In addition, Suarez has been in our culture for nearly a year so it is reasonable for us to expect that he is familiar with certain valued aspects of our society, in particularly that racism is not tolerated (do they make announcements about it at football games in the same way that do at RL games?). I assume that Liverpool support the 'Kick Racism out of Football' campaign so he is likely to have received some sort of training/learning around this. His only defence would be to give an example of where he has used this term in the same context towards a player who was white. If he hasn't then I suggest that his intent was meant to be derogatory. He might well have been just trying to wind up Evra, in which case then he's been naive in using such an inflammatory racial slur.

Roddy B wrote: If a term isn't deemed offensive to somebody, and they've never been raised to believe that term is offensive, when they use it, how on earth are they supposed to know it is offensive? It's something we may struggle to understand as we live in a highly PC society and find shock from things without putting much thought into it. Read this: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foot ... 61881.html Although I do think they try and show some guilt on Suarez's part, it briefly explains how the term is used in his own country and seems to assume Suarez was using it to poke fun at Evra. From the way it seems, negrito is a regularly used word when talking to black people, almost like the way we use 'mate' or 'pal' in Britain. IMO, it'll be very hard for Evra to prove Suarez was guilty of being racist when the term isn't deemed racist to Suarez. It's sad for the PC brigade on here that everyone's favourite villain can't be beaten with another stick, but I hope Suarez's name is cleared and he continues to use the term negrito in banter. Suarez is just trying to pull the wool over our eyes. He's been playing in Holland prior to England so I think it's fair to assume that he is familiar with the derogatory use of the word n***** (of which negrito appears to be a hispanic variation). He's trying to use some sort of cultural difference to suggest that he wasn't using a term likely to cause racial offence. Had he used the word n***** he would quite rightly have not been able to claim it was a cultural difference/misunderstanding. In addition, Suarez has been in our culture for nearly a year so it is reasonable for us to expect that he is familiar with certain valued aspects of our society, in particularly that racism is not tolerated (do they make announcements about it at football games in the same way that do at RL games?). I assume that Liverpool support the 'Kick Racism out of Football' campaign so he is likely to have received some sort of training/learning around this. His only defence would be to give an example of where he has used this term in the same context towards a player who was white. If he hasn't then I suggest that his intent was meant to be derogatory. He might well have been just trying to wind up Evra, in which case then he's been naive in using such an inflammatory racial slur.