Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:11 am  

William Bonney wrote:

If he has used a variation of the 'N' word, there can be no defence for that.

Of course there can. If that word is used in a similar vein to 'mate' or 'pal' in his home country, it clearly isn't deemed racist. You have no clue when during the game Suarez used the term, nor do you know the context in which it was said. The FA can't find him guilty of that for the sake of 'making a point', this is somebody's life here and the chance of a massive backlash from the British public against Suarez is very possible if he's found guilty, it wouldn't be fair to use him as a scapegoat if they can't find him guilty. If they can find him guilty, fine, do as you wish, but I've said before, the clash of languages and so on will make it very hard to prove. Also, if it's true Evra's team mates call him that - and I will lightly assume it's the Spanish speaking that do - would United come out and ban those that have allegedly said it? Should the FA force Liverpool to fine Dani Pacheco whilst out on loan because he used the term?

It's very complex and 'innocent 'til proven guilty' is definitely something that should be used in a situation like this, unless you're John Terry calling someone a black c**t and a nobhead live on TV.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:40 am  

Roddy B wrote:

Of course there can. If that word is used in a similar vein to 'mate' or 'pal' in his home country, it clearly isn't deemed racist. You have no clue when during the game Suarez used the term, nor do you know the context in which it was said. The FA can't find him guilty of that for the sake of 'making a point', this is somebody's life here and the chance of a massive backlash from the British public against Suarez is very possible if he's found guilty, it wouldn't be fair to use him as a scapegoat if they can't find him guilty. If they can find him guilty, fine, do as you wish, but I've said before, the clash of languages and so on will make it very hard to prove. Also, if it's true Evra's team mates call him that - and I will lightly assume it's the Spanish speaking that do - would United come out and ban those that have allegedly said it? Should the FA force Liverpool to fine Dani Pacheco whilst out on loan because he used the term?

It's very complex and 'innocent 'til proven guilty' is definitely something that should be used in a situation like this, unless you're John Terry calling someone a black c**t and a nobhead live on TV.

Black Americans use the 'N' word all the time to each other in a friendly way. Would that make it okay for an american to use it in the premier league then?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:04 pm  

William Bonney wrote:

Black Americans use the 'N' word all the time to each other in a friendly way. Would that make it okay for an american to use it in the premier league then?

To another black person? It depends really, black people don't seem to be offended by it when another black person says it. I don't recall too many black people anywhere being upset by the name of the old group 'NWA'.

I used to go to school with black people and they used to call me a n***a as a laugh, they used to ask me to say it back as a laugh but I never bothered. The use of the term shouldn't always be deemed racist. I also work with an Asian lad who still calls Pakistani's 'p**i's', as he was born and raised in India and told me that's the term he was raised to use, it's not racist to him, but he obviously can't say it to everyone, but if you overheard him, you might say 'he's being racist', but he's not, he's just using slang that we find offensive, yet he was raised not to find it offensive.

There is no clear rule with these things, which is why things like culture, language, context and malice have to be taken into consideration. Those looking for a clear line will struggle, IMO, it'll be too complex to find a guilty verdict and will probably end up being deemed a misunderstanding.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:25 pm  

If Evra kept his mouth shut and never said anything to Suarez then Suarez will probably get away with it.

If however Evra reacted angrily to the comments from Suarez and told him to STFU, and Suarez continued with the used of the word then Suarez will probably be getting done for it.

No matter what happens, Roddy B will just talk a load of 5hite and insist that Suarez is innocent, while shouting the loudest for John Terry to be hammered, no matter what emerges from that case.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:44 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

To another black person? It depends really, black people don't seem to be offended by it when another black person says it. I don't recall too many black people anywhere being upset by the name of the old group 'NWA'.

I used to go to school with black people and they used to call me a n***a as a laugh, they used to ask me to say it back as a laugh but I never bothered. The use of the term shouldn't always be deemed racist. I also work with an Asian lad who still calls Pakistani's 'p**i's', as he was born and raised in India and told me that's the term he was raised to use, it's not racist to him, but he obviously can't say it to everyone, but if you overheard him, you might say 'he's being racist', but he's not, he's just using slang that we find offensive, yet he was raised not to find it offensive.

There is no clear rule with these things, which is why things like culture, language, context and malice have to be taken into consideration. Those looking for a clear line will struggle, IMO, it'll be too complex to find a guilty verdict and will probably end up being deemed a misunderstanding.

All irrelevant. It's not the culture you are from that matters, it is the culture you are in.

Try going to Saudi Arabia and walking round in your shorts with no top on. Get a girl to go with you wearing a short skirt and a bikini top. Have a kiss in public. All fine to do here, we've been brought up that it's not offensive or illegal to show affection or your toned, lean body.

Suarez is an idiot to use the defense he has. He should have sticked to silence instead. Life ban is in order.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:11 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

All irrelevant. It's not the culture you are from that matters, it is the culture you are in.

Try going to Saudi Arabia and walking round in your shorts with no top on. Get a girl to go with you wearing a short skirt and a bikini top. Have a kiss in public. All fine to do here, we've been brought up that it's not offensive or illegal to show affection or your toned, lean body.

Suarez is an idiot to use the defense he has. He should have sticked to silence instead. Life ban is in order.

But if you went to Arabia and called an Arab 'mate', and he was offended, would you go to prison for it if they found 'mate' offensive in their language? The chances of a fair court finding you guilty would be extremely low. As I said, language barriers, context and malice will all have to be taken into account. He may well be proven guilty of using a racist word, but it doesn't mean he was being racist as the word has a completely different meaning in his language.

The way you're going about it, you'd think he was a neo-nazi on the pitch.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:21 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

But if you went to Arabia and called an Arab 'mate', and he was offended, would you go to prison for it if they found 'mate' offensive in their language? The chances of a fair court finding you guilty would be extremely low. As I said, language barriers, context and malice will all have to be taken into account. He may well be proven guilty of using a racist word, but it doesn't mean he was being racist as the word has a completely different meaning in his language.

The way you're going about it, you'd think he was a neo-nazi on the pitch.

Look at the coverage of the match. He's in Evra's ear the whole time. Clearly trying to wind him up and there is no doubt he's a bully and if he's identifying Evra based on his skin colour it's racism.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:31 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

Just banter mate, Evra needs a spine.

Think you are getting confused over what is banter. I'm sure between friends/team-mates it would be classed as banter, but saying it to someone who is playing for your much hated rivals in the heat of the game is hardly likely to be banter. Can't remember many Utd vs LFC games where the players have been having a laugh/banter with each other on the pitch during the game?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:32 pm  

Another win without a great performance for England, this time with a reserve side.

Assuming everyone's fit and Rooney is still banned, how would you line up for the first game of the Euros?

Personally:

Hart
Richards Jagielka Terry Cole
Parker Wilshire
Walcott Gerrard Young
Bent

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:40 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Look at the coverage of the match. He's in Evra's ear the whole time. Clearly trying to wind him up and there is no doubt he's a bully and if he's identifying Evra based on his skin colour it's racism.