Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:05 pm  

Mark wrote:

I think you could possibly catch the Falcons as I think they were exceeding expectations last year. I think you will be 7-9 in all honesty. If that. For the record, I doubt we will do anything special.

The Falcons were extremely lucky last year with injuries. They went through a 2 month period without having to add anyone to their squad! How often does that ever happen?! As for how we will do, im a little more optimistic and said 9 wins when I saw the schedule. You would expect that off a fan of a team though.

I've got to say though, i'm nervous as hell about the Lions 1st up. They beat us last year (all be it through a lucky call for them) and look good in D. I'd say im looking forward to playing the Colts on week 5 over the Lions in week 1.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:57 pm  

Mark wrote:

How about best RB's?

1. Peterson
2. Johnson
3. Rice
4. Charles
5. MJD
6. McFadden
7. Gore
8. Turner
9. Jackson
10.Hillis

1. Peterson
2. Charles
3. Johnson (however his holdout has knocked him down a spot, not his skill set )
4. MJD
5. Rice
6. McFadden
7. Jackson
8. Turner
9. Gore
10. Green-Ellis ....or Blount

Got something else we could have a go with, an all *division* team like AFC-East select, any offensive formation so long as it has 5 linemen, and for the other side of the ball, the more common run formation in the division.

AFC East I'd go with:
QB: Brady (NE)
RB: Greene (NYJ)
WR: Marshall (MIA), Holmes (NYJ), Welker (NE)
TE: Gronkowski (NE)
OL: Long (MIA), Mankins (NE), Mangold (NYJ), Moore (NYJ), Vollmer (NE)
3-4:
DE: Wilfork (NE), Langford (MIA)
NT: Pouha (NYJ)
OLB: Wake (MIA), Merriman (BUF)
ILB: Mayo (NE), Harris (NYJ)
CB: Revis (NYJ), Davis (MIA)
S: Byrd (BUF), Bell (MIA)

K: Gostkowski (NE)
P: Moorman (BUF)

8 NE
7 NYJ
6 MIA
3 BUF

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:58 pm  

Harrigan wrote:

:)

Except he's been good since he came into the league. As a starter he is 13-12 and blew away most of the premier QB's 1st year totals last year. I dont buy into all this "Tampa were only good because they had a weak scedule B.S.".

We were the team everyone wanted to play last year. ESPN ran a segment on us last preseason saying "Bucs... over/under 3 wins." The panelists said under! Not only did we match the team we played in 13 of the 16 games we played last year, we did it spending a hell of a lot let than everyone else in the league. And the majority of the wins were down to 1 person. The guy we are on about here.

I dont mind the scepticism though. Hey, i'd probably be saying the same in your shoes. Just dont be surprised if we grab a wildcard slot this year and make an impact on the playoffs.

Throwing 10TD's to 18 picks in his first season was good? You do know last year was his 2nd season right? BTW when you beat us it was absolutely not down to the play of Freeman. I can assure you that. He threw the TD but your D kept you in that game despite us been hugely on top throughout.

We should've kept Bulger and drafted Suh if that's the case. Everybody loves their own players that little bit more than others but your bias is comical. Seeing as Bradford had a better rookie season than Freeman, by quite a distance as well, should I crown him a member of the elite? Nope, he needs to out there and prove it over more than one season.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:57 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

Throwing 10TD's to 18 picks in his first season was good? You do know last year was his 2nd season right? BTW when you beat us it was absolutely not down to the play of Freeman. I can assure you that. He threw the TD but your D kept you in that game despite us been hugely on top throughout.

We should've kept Bulger and drafted Suh if that's the case. Everybody loves their own players that little bit more than others but your bias is comical. Seeing as Bradford had a better rookie season than Freeman, by quite a distance as well, should I crown him a member of the elite? Nope, he needs to out there and prove it over more than one season.

His 1st season as a starter... Thats what you usually judge players on. Ive never judged a QB in his rookie season, especially when he doesnt get a full year. And im not a homer, nor do I have that much bias. I dont big up anyone else as much as Freeman. We have some tallent but I just know how good he is and what he will become in the next 10-15 years. Obviously there is always a chance something could go wrong down the line but I cant see that with Josh. He is all class and has his head screwed on the right way.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:24 pm  

Harrigan wrote:

His 1st season as a starter... Thats what you usually judge players on. Ive never judged a QB in his rookie season, especially when he doesnt get a full year. And im not a homer, nor do I have that much bias. I dont big up anyone else as much as Freeman. We have some tallent but I just know how good he is and what he will become in the next 10-15 years. Obviously there is always a chance something could go wrong down the line but I cant see that with Josh. He is all class and has his head screwed on the right way.

But he started most of his 1st season so surely that counts as a starter? Does to me anyway. It certainly does for Bradford.

You do though, pal. Have you seen the quality of QB you have put Freeman ahead of? I love Bradford. The guy is the future of our franchise. He had an awesome rookie season. But I can look at the situation, see he's started well but he needs to have done it for 2 or 3 years before he can start to be looked at as a top 10 QB in this league. Even a player like Derek Anderson has had a good year like Freeman, you don't go putting them in the top 10 on the back of 1 season. Explains why you took Vick at number 1 in the fantasy draft though I suppose.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:26 pm  

I'm with Harrigan. Freeman is already excellent. I don't understand the scepticism about putting young good QB's that high in the rankings.

It was the same with Rodgers. He was garbage on here until he won a SB, despite playing at that same high level since he got the starting job.

Freeman isn't quite in that top level yet, but IMO he's as good as Ryan, better than Ben is debatable, for me he is though.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:30 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

I'm with Harrigan. Freeman is already excellent. I don't understand the scepticism about putting young good QB's that high in the rankings.

It was the same with Rodgers. He was garbage on here until he won a SB, despite playing at that same high level since he got the starting job.

Freeman isn't quite in that top level yet, but IMO he's as good as Ryan, better than Ben is debatable, for me he is though.

You need to go back and read some of the comments as your memory doesn't seem to be very accurate. The debate on Rodgers was whether he was an elite level QB or not. Most, including myself, said he couldn't be considered one until he did it in the playoffs. How that is calling him garbage I have no idea.

He's not better than Big Ben. I don't like Big Ben but you guys are downplaying his talents horrendously. The guy not only get's it done when it matters he also puts up good numbers. Ryan vs Freeman is a bit closer but I'll take the guy who's done it for more than one year personally. I'm not saying Freemans crap, I just think you guys are getting far too excited about a QB who, in the grand scheme of things, has done rock all.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:45 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

You need to go back and read some of the comments as your memory doesn't seem to be very accurate. The debate on Rodgers was whether he was an elite level QB or not. Most, including myself, said he couldn't be considered one until he did it in the playoffs. How that is calling him garbage I have no idea.

He's not better than Big Ben. I don't like Big Ben but you guys are downplaying his talents horrendously. The guy not only get's it done when it matters he also puts up good numbers. Ryan vs Freeman is a bit closer but I'll take the guy who's done it for more than one year personally. I'm not saying Freemans crap, I just think you guys are getting far too excited about a QB who, in the grand scheme of things, has done rock all.

The debate essentially was his fantastic stats were irrelevant because he hadn't made many 4th quarter comebacks. If your that good that you don't need to make 4th Q comebacks it doesn't add to your clutch rating.

Ryan hasn't done it in the playoffs yet either, he dropped his load when we rolled into the Georgia Dome. Rivers hasn't really done it yet either in the playoffs. Not many do. Ben is a decent QB but for me is vastly overrated.

We've had this discussion before and we obviously have different ideas of how you weight general skill versus something intangible like clutchness...

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:56 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

The debate essentially was his fantastic stats were irrelevant because he hadn't made many 4th quarter comebacks. If your that good that you don't need to make 4th Q comebacks it doesn't add to your clutch rating.

Ryan hasn't done it in the playoffs yet either, he dropped his load when we rolled into the Georgia Dome. Rivers hasn't really done it yet either in the playoffs. Not many do. Ben is a decent QB but for me is vastly overrated.

We've had this discussion before and we obviously have different ideas of how you weight general skill versus something intangible like clutchness...

I'm pretty certain the whole clutch thing was Mark and was done purely to wind you up. My thoughts on Rodgers were that he was in that tier underneath Brady and Manning but entered it by getting it done in the playoffs. If you check my history I'm pretty sure that's what I've always said.

Ryan hasn't done it in the playoffs. I must have missed Freemans playoff games? As such I'll judge it on regular season games. Ryan's been a successful QB in this league for 3 years. Freeman 1. Hence why I rate Ryan higher. Had Freeman posted Warner numbers then I'd rate him higher but he posted more like Garrard 2007 numbers.

I like Rivers but I don't remember rating him as an elite QB. He's in that tier just under like Rodgers was. I'm sure Rivers had a top quality playoff game a couple of years back but I could be wrong. Ben has good career stats of that you can't deny. The fact he gets done when it matters is a huge bonus.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:24 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

I'm pretty certain the whole clutch thing was Mark and was done purely to wind you up. My thoughts on Rodgers were that he was in that tier underneath Brady and Manning but entered it by getting it done in the playoffs. If you check my history I'm pretty sure that's what I've always said.

Probably was Mark.

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

Ryan hasn't done it in the playoffs. I must have missed Freemans playoff games? As such I'll judge it on regular season games. Ryan's been a successful QB in this league for 3 years. Freeman 1. Hence why I rate Ryan higher. Had Freeman posted Warner numbers then I'd rate him higher but he posted more like Garrard 2007 numbers.

I like Rivers but I don't remember rating him as an elite QB. He's in that tier just under like Rodgers was. I'm sure Rivers had a top quality playoff game a couple of years back but I could be wrong. Ben has good career stats of that you can't deny. The fact he gets done when it matters is a huge bonus.

As i've said we obviously disagree on how QB's should be rated. There needs to come a point where a QB has to stop living on the past (ie 2 or 3 years ago) of getting it done to keep himself ranked ahead of those who are producing at a higher level at that specific time.

Top 10 RB's for me:

1. Adrian Peterson
2. MJD
3. Jamaal Charles
4. Chris Johnson
5. Ray Rice
6. Steven Jackson
7. Arian Foster
8. Michael Turner
9. LeSean McCoy
10. Rashad Mendenhall