Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:36 am  

Roddy B wrote:

I don't know why De Gea's getting so much grief. Last year, we played United and VDS made a mockery of a Suarez free kick, gifting Kuyt a hat trick. Nobody questioned him, nobody panned him and no players tried to elbow him to 'unsettle' him.

De Gea's proven for Atletico that he's a good goalkeeper with huge potential. I only watched the second half of United's game today, but did anyone see some of the balls he was pinging around? Cross field diagonal passes onto the player's tiptoes. He struggled in the worthless shield and he should have done better with the goal conceded today, but it happens. I find it funny that little was said of Foster's error because he's English. He's an English media demigod.

As for that second half, a drawer seemed a fair result, United shown some good signs but didn't seem to create much. First weekend's almost over (technically is, but Citeh are still to play), us, Chelsea and Arsenal draw. Looking at our game, we've lots of positives to take, a few negatives to work on and a couple of players to sign.

A good post. Nani missed two great chances yesterday and he is not getting slaughtered. De Gea should have done better but it was hardly a howler and his distribution was superb. He will get better and needs time to adapt but some of the flak he has received so far is shocking.

Utd lacked creativity from the midfield imo, Cleverley and Anderson's passing stats were good but they created nothing. Utd have needed to buy a creative midfielder all season and still do, more reports about Sneijder but whoever it is we need someone.

Injuries to Rio, Rafael and Vidic have come at a bad time with our tough start. I would imagine the defence will be Evra, Jones, Evans, Smalling for the Spurs game.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:39 am  

Roddy B wrote:

I don't know why De Gea's getting so much grief. Last year, we played United and VDS made a mockery of a Suarez free kick, gifting Kuyt a hat trick. Nobody questioned him, nobody panned him and no players tried to elbow him to 'unsettle' him.

That'll be because VDS had over a decade of first class goalkeeping credentials. It would be known by everybody that he is able to rise above such situations and not dwell on them. We don't know that about this new guy yet.

Roddy B wrote:

De Gea's proven for Atletico that he's a good goalkeeper with huge potential. I only watched the second half of United's game today, but did anyone see some of the balls he was pinging around? Cross field diagonal passes onto the player's tiptoes. He struggled in the worthless shield and he should have done better with the goal conceded today, but it happens. I find it funny that little was said of Foster's error because he's English. He's an English media demigod.

That's a silly point. The reason why a lot was made of De Gea's mistake was because he plays for the champions, it's his second game, he's very young and also is the second most expensive goalkeeper ever. Ben Foster plays for a makeweight Premiership team. It's to be expected that De Gea would be scrutinised more. To suggest there's some sort of nationalist preservation agenda is going on is misleading.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:38 am  

It's the fact that the goals weren't actually normal bloopers that raised my eyebrows. If he gets to them but they squirm through, it's embarassing for him but all keepers do it at some point in their career.

But not being able to judge/see/react to those two shots in the time he had is a more fundamental failing and backs up what they were saying on SKY about how often he was beaten from distance in Spain.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:55 am  

Showed how little United created and how poor we played at times when you look at the stat of just 1 shot on target.
But if you can only have 1 shot on target and still win 2-1 there must be something going right!

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:08 pm  

McClennan wrote:

That'll be because VDS had over a decade of first class goalkeeping credentials. It would be known by everybody that he is able to rise above such situations and not dwell on them. We don't know that about this new guy yet.

That's a silly point. The reason why a lot was made of De Gea's mistake was because he plays for the champions, it's his second game, he's very young and also is the second most expensive goalkeeper ever. Ben Foster plays for a makeweight Premiership team. It's to be expected that De Gea would be scrutinised more. To suggest there's some sort of nationalist preservation agenda is going on is misleading.

Ben Foster is apparently England's number 2, is he not? He's played for England regularly. When Paul Robinson was back at Spurs, he received a fair amount of flack back then for his mistakes. Foster's lived off a mythical reputation for years, ever since he was out on loan at Watford the media have put him on a silver alter. Are you honestly trying to tell me the English media aren't hopelessly biased towards English players?

Just because VDS would have recovered from the mistake, doesn't mean he shouldn't get the grief a mistake deserves. Mistakes are what they, you can't just say "he's made a mistake, he'll get over it", it's not really fair, as you're basically ignoring the mistake. De Gea make a mistake, I'm sure everyone at the club has immense faith behind him, but I don't think it's fair that the English media and fans blow the mistake out of proportion. It's a little like when Reina made that mistake against Everton with Carsley's long shot, my Evertonian mates still say Reina's gash because of it.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:38 pm  

I thought Foster's mythical reputation came about because Fergie kept telling the press how good he was?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:41 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

I thought Foster's mythical reputation came about because Fergie kept telling the press how good he was?

Nah, started when he was at Watford and won them games with regularity, then when the press cottoned on that he was there on loan from United, well, what more do you want?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:57 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

Ben Foster is apparently England's number 2, is he not? He's played for England regularly. When Paul Robinson was back at Spurs, he received a fair amount of flack back then for his mistakes. Foster's lived off a mythical reputation for years, ever since he was out on loan at Watford the media have put him on a silver alter. Are you honestly trying to tell me the English media aren't hopelessly biased towards English players?

No but I am saying that De Gea's profile is a lot higher than Foster's for the reasons I stated. It stands to reason a higher profile player (and you can't suggest Foster has the same profile) who more people have an interest in observing will come under more scrutiny.

Roddy B wrote:

Just because VDS would have recovered from the mistake, doesn't mean he shouldn't get the grief a mistake deserves. Mistakes are what they, you can't just say "he's made a mistake, he'll get over it", it's not really fair, as you're basically ignoring the mistake.

No but because VDS has a track record of success it's more likely to be viewed as an error. In De Gea's case he has no track record (with most people) so his errors will be analysed more because people are asking questions as to if there are fundamental problems in his game. I'm pretty sure David James came under the same sort of examination when he signed for Liverpool and the concerns, about fundamental issues in his game, were identified as early as that. James may have improved but he always carried with him those fundamental flaws to his game and never fully overcame then. The VDS situation is similar to what happened with Joe Hart recently after the England game. People were more likely to jump to his defence after those goals with England because the perception is that they were errors rather than indicators of a fundamental problem with his game.

Roddy B wrote:

De Gea make a mistake, I'm sure everyone at the club has immense faith behind him, but I don't think it's fair that the English media and fans blow the mistake out of proportion. It's a little like when Reina made that mistake against Everton with Carsley's long shot, my Evertonian mates still say Reina's gash because of it.

Well, we'll see with De Gea won't we. Has the media blown things out of proportion? What does it matter if they have because you have your own pair of eyes and it's not like they're asking questions that the general footballing public aren't themselves. I'm pretty sure fans of other clubs will be looking very closely (as will the Utd coaching staff and opposition coaches) at him to see if he's just made mistakes or whether its something more problematic. Why would you ignore them and just brush them off as mistakes rather than concerns about his overall game? Are the media/fans looking for cracks in the Utd? Perhaps they are but so what? That happens to every player (in differing amounts) and England players certainly aren't immune from that kind of criticism and analysis after England games. The club and fans will obviously support De Gea (I recall their fans giving great support when willing Forlan to score) but if he continues to be perceived as a keeper who makes errors in judgement then the expectations placed on him by the media will seem pale in comparison to the groans from the stands.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:05 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Looks like the same old routine for this season....United look mediocre for the majority of a match against a poor opponent, then snatch a little deserved winner late on.

I admire United's tenacity to play right until the end, but it doesn't say much for the standard of the Premier League, when an average team like United are the team to beat, season after season.

You're saying United are average?

Roddy B wrote:

I don't know why De Gea's getting so much grief. Last year, we played United and VDS made a mockery of a Suarez free kick, gifting Kuyt a hat trick. Nobody questioned him, nobody panned him and no players tried to elbow him to 'unsettle' him.

De Gea's proven for Atletico that he's a good goalkeeper with huge potential. I only watched the second half of United's game today, but did anyone see some of the balls he was pinging around? Cross field diagonal passes onto the player's tiptoes. He struggled in the worthless shield and he should have done better with the goal conceded today, but it happens. I find it funny that little was said of Foster's error because he's English. He's an English media demigod.

As for that second half, a drawer seemed a fair result, United shown some good signs but didn't seem to create much. First weekend's almost over (technically is, but Citeh are still to play), us, Chelsea and Arsenal draw. Looking at our game, we've lots of positives to take, a few negatives to work on and a couple of players to sign.

A media demigod? He'll get stick like anybody when it's deserved and yesterday it wasn't, if you're referring to Rooney's goal I doubt any goalkeeper in the league would've been able to get to that whereas no goalkeeper should be conceeding like De Gea did, he's young with a lot of potential but he's yet to show it over here. He's had two chances in a United shirt really and on both occasions he's messed up and cost them a goal. If Foster had done it he'd be hammered, I've no idea where you're getting the idea that he's immune to critiscism from the media for, England goalkeepers get destroyed in the press when they make a mistake.

Of course VDS will have made mistakes but he was a proven, quality goalkeeper and his mistakes were few and far between whereas De Gea, who don't a lot of people have been unsure about United signing him for so much money, has a little amount of experience in Spain and so far has had a dodgy start to life in the PL. I saw a lot of him in Spain and I think he'll be a quality goalkeeper given time.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:19 pm  

Started off shaky the young spaniard. Nowt to worry about though, Liverpools has been doing it for about 5 years.