Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:33 pm  

John_D wrote:

28 years old now. He's not even the best of Shakhtar's Brazilian contingent.
Fees are pretty meaningless when it comes to City, though. They want, they will have.

Its a few years since ive seen Shaktar but i was impressed with one Brazilian (think its Jedson)?...or something like that.

There South American scouting network must be very good.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:46 pm  

duke street 10 wrote:

Its a few years since ive seen Shaktar but i was impressed with one Brazilian (think its Jedson)?...or something like that.

There South American scouting network must be very good.

Jadson was sold back to Brazil - I forget where. I don't think they made too much profit on that one, but got a couple of hundred games and a bagful of goals out of him. Yes, excellent player. Surprised he didn't end up at a bigger European club.
I'm sure they've had as many misses as they've had hits, but when the big hits can reap many times the initial outlay, the misses don't seem quite so significant. If for every Jadson or Matusalem that they sell for what they paid they get one Willian or Fernandinho, or even Elano, then they're laughing.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:45 am  

Looks like Stuart Pearce is going to get the boot from the under 21s job. Fair enough, but the people making that decision also chose to deny him the services of many of the better players he could/should have had at his disposal. A bit of self-awareness wouldn't go amiss.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:33 am  

John_D wrote:

Looks like Stuart Pearce is going to get the boot from the under 21s job. Fair enough, but the people making that decision also chose to deny him the services of many of the better players he could/should have had at his disposal. A bit of self-awareness wouldn't go amiss.

Self-awareness from the FA???

Would Pearce have been helped by having Oxlade-Chamberlin at his disposal? Definitely. But would Oxlade-Chamberlin have benefited from playing in the u21s rather than smacking in a goal against Brazil at the Maracana? I don't think so.

I know that there was a few CFC fans who were decrying Benitez for taking Nathan Ake to Amsterdam when he could have been playing in the youth FA Cup final. Personally I think being in the squad for a Europa League final is worth many times what he'd have gained even if his presence would have won us the youth FA Cup.

Pearce might whine that his best players weren't available to him, but his job is to get the best of the players he does have. He doesn't look to have done that.

Trevor Brooking's "we're 10 years behind Spain" comments aren't very good when he's been in that job 10 years.

What's the solution? Personally I don't know, or care. I just think you don't mess with things that are going right in the hopes that it will make a difference in years to come. By that I mean you don't start introducing stupid quotas for PL teams to make them pick crappy English players for the sake of it. IMO all that will achieve is hamper English clubs in European competition and mean we have a crappy PL as well as a crappy national team.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:00 pm  

There's only three or four decent excellent teams in the PL ( Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal ) and the best players are not even English.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:24 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Self-awareness from the FA???

Yeah, I know.

I'm not sure what the solutions are, but offing Pearce is neither here nor there, though the results and, more importantly, the performances have been dreadful.
I like the idea of the German system where one coach sticks with a group of players from u15 (I think) through to the u21s and when they graduate through to the senior side, that coach starts again with another group of u15s. But generating success by whichever method you employ is still dependent on there being a group of players who are any good. Then you've got to have a look at youth development, who runs it and whether they're the right people to be so, whether there's a coherent strategy, the number and quality of coaches and loads of things I'm sure I haven't got a clue about.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:30 pm  

John_D wrote:

They did sell (I think) Willian to Anzhi for a huge mark-up, so they probably don't need to sell right now, but their model is largely based on picking up South Americans on the cheap, giving them a route into Europe and selling on for profit.

I remember reading they scout mostly Brazilians instead of spreading their scouts too thin across South America. Apparently they have a little Brazilian community there that helps the new players settle in quicker.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:27 pm  

There was never going to be enough in that Under 21 squad to do anything, only 3 of the Premier League players are regulars at their clubs plus Rose on loan at Sunderland.

There needs to be a massive culture shift in English football for the national team to ever progress, clubs just aren't willing to take the chance on players - they just farm them out on loan after loan tying them to long contracts and then by their 23/24 their chances of ever making the top of the game are over.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:29 pm  

Not sure how feasible it is from a legal standpoint, but I'd like to see some sort of quota to prevent PL clubs stuffing their academies full of kids from overseas.

If a large percentage of your kids aren't England qualified, then that is going to feed through into your first team.

Problem is that the clubs are - by and large - responsible for developing the next generation of players for both themselves and the country at the same time. There's always going to be a conflict, and self interest is always going to win.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:07 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Not sure how feasible it is from a legal standpoint, but I'd like to see some sort of quota to prevent PL clubs stuffing their academies full of kids from overseas.

If a large percentage of your kids aren't England qualified, then that is going to feed through into your first team.

Problem is that the clubs are - by and large - responsible for developing the next generation of players for both themselves and the country at the same time. There's always going to be a conflict, and self interest is always going to win.

Even then, clubs just aren't providing the first team opportunities for their young players, English or foreign.

IMO, the worst thing a young player can do is move to a big club after the age of 16, because they'll just continue to stall. Look at Moses, Rodwell and Sinclair; all were guaranteed choices for their clubs since their moves they hardly get a look in.