Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:45 pm  

Think you're being a bit precious. He's got two years left on his contract which will be United's main reasoning for the offer being on the low side.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:24 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Think you're being a bit precious. He's got two years left on his contract which will be United's main reasoning for the offer being on the low side.

and 28 years of age.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:20 pm  

flipper wrote:

and 28 years of age.

And he's a full back. I know a couple have gone for a bit over the years but it's hardly the glamour position where clubs splash out £20m on a player, is it? Despite us spunking a fair amount on Glen Johnson.

Baines is a top player, but he's got no experience of the champions league, he's hardly got a wealth of experience at international level. He's integral to what Everton do so they're entitled to ask for a bigger fee, but I can see why United wouldn't pay obscene money for him.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:36 am  

Roddy B wrote:

And he's a full back. I know a couple have gone for a bit over the years but it's hardly the glamour position where clubs splash out £20m on a player, is it? Despite us spunking a fair amount on Glen Johnson.

Baines is a top player, but he's got no experience of the champions league, he's hardly got a wealth of experience at international level. He's integral to what Everton do so they're entitled to ask for a bigger fee, but I can see why United wouldn't pay obscene money for him.

Baines is more than just a fullback though isn't he. He created more chances than any other player in the Prem, Serie A, La Liga and Bundesliga last season. More chances created than Xavi, more than Ronaldo, more than Messi, more than Gotze, more than Cazorla, more than Mata. Baines teeing up RVP rather than Anichebe or Jelavic would be worth 15 goals a season for United easy.

Joleon Lescott went for £24m, Coentrao £25m, Johnson £17.5m. £10m for Baines is ridiculous.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Joleon Lescott went for £24m, Coentrao £25m, Johnson £17.5m. £10m for Baines is ridiculous.

Firstly, all 3 were younger than Baines at the time of their moves. Secondly, they all signed for clubs with records of paying over the odds (arguably whatever it takes) to get who they want (and in the Johnson case a lot of it was a write-off of the Crouch debt IIRC). It's the 3 large fees that are more ridiculous than the Baines offer. Everton will want, and Man Utd will probably agree to, more, but if you're thinking he's a £20m player I think you'll be disappointed. I reckon there's a strong chance of settlement around £15-16m. Arsenal got a Spanish international, younger than Baines, and with Champions League experience for roughly half that.

Oh, and just a niggle but it seems to have been £12m, not £10m.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:32 am  

Next week when Baines signs for his new club, I think the PL should confiscate the transfer fee from Everton as punishment for their lie that he wasn't for sale at any price.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:40 am  

So what did we think of the Confed cup final? Spain were terrible but Brasil bullied them and although they lack the stars the previous Brasil teams they have enough class to go with their physicality to be a real threat and in Brasil next year they will be VERY difficult to beat in Brasil.
As for Spain, they've been sussed a little bit in this tourney, Italy and Brasil in the final worked out very quickly that if you crowd the midfield and press them they struggle because they play so narrowly. Why Navas doen't start I don't know because they look far more threatening when he's on. I also think Iniesta has struggled, and especially last night, he looked liked he'd been possed buy Gareth Barry. Pass selction was poor and he took too many touches and got caught in possesion a number of times. Their defence is their biggest weakness though, both FB's look suspect especially Arbelloa.

I think it could be a possitive defeat for Spain as it may well give them the kick up the backside they need ahead of the World cup after just having to turn up for the last few major tourney's but unless they sort out their weaknesses I can't see them having enough to win over there. It will be a good World cup though, Brasil, Argentina, Spain, Germany and Italy all have a good chance IMO.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:21 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

So what did we think of the Confed cup final? Spain were terrible but Brasil bullied them and although they lack the stars the previous Brasil teams they have enough class to go with their physicality to be a real threat and in Brasil next year they will be VERY difficult to beat in Brasil.
As for Spain, they've been sussed a little bit in this tourney, Italy and Brasil in the final worked out very quickly that if you crowd the midfield and press them they struggle because they play so narrowly. Why Navas doen't start I don't know because they look far more threatening when he's on. I also think Iniesta has struggled, and especially last night, he looked liked he'd been possed buy Gareth Barry. Pass selction was poor and he took too many touches and got caught in possesion a number of times. Their defence is their biggest weakness though, both FB's look suspect especially Arbelloa.

I think it could be a possitive defeat for Spain as it may well give them the kick up the backside they need ahead of the World cup after just having to turn up for the last few major tourney's but unless they sort out their weaknesses I can't see them having enough to win over there. It will be a good World cup though, Brasil, Argentina, Spain, Germany and Italy all have a good chance IMO.

I think Spain and the Spanish way of playing has been found out now. Barcelona were battered by Bayern Munich, who played in a similar way to Brazil did. It's not rocket science either, just hound them in midfield, don't let them have time on the ball and because they're setup for short passing and a narrow possession game, they don't have much pace or direct runners to worry about. Then just break quickly and direct when you get the ball. It was amazing how many passes were misplaced last night by Spain, and the panic that ensued when they did lose it as Brazil broke. There is only Iniesta and Xavi with the ability to keep the ball under pressure, the likes of Pedro, Martinez, Torres Alba and Arbelloa just give the ball away. Most teams faced with Spain would sit back, let them have the ball deep. Spain would then build and move the ball about at will. After 10 minutes of constant possession someone would invariably clock off and they'd work a chance. I'm not suggesting England could use the above tactics to beat Spain, but I'm sure the likes of Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy and even Holland have a decent chance of beating them.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm  

I wouldn't say Spain have been 'found out'. It doesn't matter how you play, if the opposition play with stupendous energy levels and counter attack with top quality attack, it's likely you're gonna get beat.

For me, Spain's biggest issue lies up front with their strikers. Torres has never really fit, Villa looks so off the pace and they don't appear to have that player to provide the cutting edge. Outplaying sides matters very little when you don't have that extra dart of quality in the final third. Yes, Brazil completely played to Spain's weaknesses, but you don't have a record like theirs only to be undone by one defeat.

I look at next year's world cup and I see Spain, Brazil, Germany and Argentina, as well as France, Italy and possibly Uruguay as the main contenders. Brazil on home turf should make up for any lack of exceptional quality, they'll be good enough to make the final. Think the next year for Spain will completely depend on how well Fabregas steps in for Xavi. Age is catching up with Xavi now and it isn't Spain's style to surround him with industry like Italy do with Pirlo. The Spanish FA are going to have to find a way to get the national players some extra rest before the world cup, too, as their dominance means they've been playing into July for the majority of the past five years.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:09 am  

Roddy B wrote:

The Spanish FA are going to have to find a way to get the national players some extra rest before the world cup, too, as their dominance means they've been playing into July for the majority of the past five years.

Nail, head, etc.
Success, especially on the level Barcelona and Spain have enjoyed recently, brings many more games. Xavi, 34 years old, has been playing upwards of 60 games a season for, what, about six years now. It's no wonder he looks jaded and he's not alone in that.