Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:39 pm  

The victory itself was sweet enough, but add to that the the buzz before the game (at least from all people at work and numerous callers into phone-ins) was Liverpool were going to wipe the floor with us. How embarrassing

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:52 pm  

The same people who thought that Liverpool would be in for an easy victory are the same divs who keep thinking that this year is their year.

I wanted Liverpool to win because it would have been another big hit for Moyes early in his tenure. But the fact it would have been a big hit for Moyes meant that it was less likely to happen.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:01 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

Tyler's comment that Enrique was playing well made me laugh.

I don't think Neville and Carragher work together. They're both playing the same "recently retired pro" role. Competing with each other for the best insights. Like a team with two goalkeepers. I'm also becoming bored with the gadgets Sky gives them to play with.

Instead of gadgets and progressive replays, I'd sooner hear some better insight into statistics and how they change. We only ever hear about possession when we watch matches, but there's an endless list to the stats. Anybody that watches the NBA will see that statistical analysis can be really insightful when watching a game, I'd sooner see one of them make that their forte rather than taking it in turn repeating pretty boring stuff.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:06 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

I wanted Liverpool to win because it would have been another big hit for Moyes early in his tenure. But the fact it would have been a big hit for Moyes meant that it was less likely to happen.

Your dislike and disrespect of Moyes is an interesting one - I've never been his greatest fan, even as an Everton supporter, but I do respect the way that he works at his job and acknowledge that he helped turn Everton from a shambles of a club, to one that has the respect of many in the game..... Whatever unfolds at United it won't be through lack of trying on his behalf.

I think what is certain though, he will still be in the Old Trafford job when your gaffer at Chelsea has left again.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:13 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Your dislike and disrespect of Moyes is an interesting one - I've never been his greatest fan, even as an Everton supporter, but I do respect the way that he works at his job and acknowledge that he helped turn Everton from a shambles of a club, to one that has the respect of many in the game..... Whatever unfolds at United it won't be through lack of trying on his behalf.

I think what is certain though, he will still be in the Old Trafford job when your gaffer at Chelsea has left again.

I don't dislike him. I don't think I have disrespected him. I think he's clearly a good Premier League manager. I just think that he is very, very lucky to be given one of the greatest jobs in football when his record is in no way worthy of it.

I don't think Everton were the shambles you claim they were. It's similar IMO to Spurs when Redknapp took over. Yes, Spurs were at the bottom of the league and in terrible form, but they still weren't a club in danger of relegation no matter how poor their position was. I think Everton had longer, more ingrained problems than Spurs had, but the fact was Everton had been in the top division for 50+ years and not a club like Wigan or Stoke who are always in danger of going down.

I think you're talking out of your butt when you say it is certain Moyes will last longer than Mourinho will. There's no way anyone can know how long Mourinho will be at CFC. Moyes will definitely be given longer at United than he'd be getting at Chelsea but he hasn't really got anything to fall back on if United are having a poor season.

Right now Everton are above Man United in the league. And Everton had an excellent transfer window while Man United made themselves look like idiots with nearly everything they did.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:31 pm  

Just compare these stats of Everton managers win percentages.

David Moyes 42.1
Joe Royle 39.8
Colin Harvey 42.4

Royle won the FA Cup with Everton. Moyes and Harvey both had 1 FA Cup final appearance.

With those stats Royle got the sack, managed Citeh when they were schitty, then Ipswich. Harvey went back into coaching. But Moyes managed to walk into the biggest job in the country.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:04 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Just compare these stats of Everton managers win percentages.

David Moyes 42.1
Joe Royle 39.8
Colin Harvey 42.4

Royle won the FA Cup with Everton. Moyes and Harvey both had 1 FA Cup final appearance.

With those stats Royle got the sack, managed Citeh when they were schitty, then Ipswich. Harvey went back into coaching. But Moyes managed to walk into the biggest job in the country.

I fully agree that Royle got a rough deal - That was more to do with the chairman at the time being a gutless wonder....Harvey took over a title winning side and dismantled it very badly - He deserved firing when he did....Moyes took over an ageing side that was heading for relegation. Walter Smith had made a real pig's ear of the job - There's little doubt that he turned it round for the good and though his style of football wasn't always the best and some of his signings had you scratching your head, on the whole Moyes did a very good job.

I admit that the jump to the United job is a big one and one that his CV probably didn't warrant, but personally I find it very refreshing that a club of United's stature have had the balls to appoint a 'promising' manager, rather than go the obvious route and fetch in a big-name European, with little regard for the club's traditions, who would simply use the job as an addition on his CV....As a Chelsea fan, I'm sure you know the type of manager I'm on about there?...

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:27 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

...but personally I find it very refreshing that a club of United's stature have had the balls to appoint a 'promising' manager, rather than go the obvious route and fetch in a big-name European, with little regard for the club's traditions, who would simply use the job as an addition on his CV....As a Chelsea fan, I'm sure you know the type of manager I'm on about there?...

I must have made this point a dozen times on here.

IMO Man United should have appointed Mourinho. Mourinho would have gone to United. Man United would be dominating the Premier League even more than they did under Ferguson.

The notion that Mourinho would use Manchester United as an addition in his CV IMO is ludicrous. I think Mourinho would have been looking at a minimum of 15 years as MU boss, winning at least 10 titles, 3 CL's and 10+ cups.

I think the promise that Moyes has shown is a figment of United and Everton fans imagination. I think Fergie's spell at Aberdeen was a worthy audition for getting the United job, I think Ron Atkinson had done a great deal more than Moyes has. Moyes had earned a bigger job for certain, but no way did he deserve that job. I actually endorsed his moving to MU for a couple of seasons as Fergie's assistant as a masterstroke but that obviously didn't work out as it was first speculated.

I think I've written this on here, but I might not have. My theory of why United appointed Moyes is that United simply couldn't go from paying Fergie around 6m quid a year and appoint Mourinho on double that. Fergie couldn't accept it, the tight Glazer's wouldn't want it, it simply couldn't be do done to swap the most successful manager in the British game and then bring in his replacement on twice the money you'd paid Fergie for all that success.

Guardiola would have been wanting a similar amount, Klopp a lot less. I only assume neither of them were interested enough to speak with United.

Moyes had done well at Everton, he's a dour Scot like Fergie, he'd come a lot cheaper than Fergie, he was out of contract so there'd be no compensation to pay.

I am absolutely delighted that Mourinho came back to us. I think we'd be pretty much screwed if United had done the sensible thing and taken him. I think that Citeh have taken a risky punt on Pellegrini that is more about them proving how clever they are rather than Pellegrini deserving the job on merit.

I think we've made by far the best appointment of the three, Citeh have trailed well behind and United have run in 3rd and need to delude themselves that Fergie knows how to appoint managers because he is a great one.

I think Citeh's squad is the strongest, United's and Chelsea's squads are inferior with problems of the balance of the sides.

I honestly don't know how this season is going to shape up. I think Man United could definitely retain their title but they could just as easily end up potless with Moyes in real difficulty.

I think if Mourinho was appointed as Man United boss and Moyes appointed boss of Chelsea everyone football supporter in England would need incontinence pads because they'd still be pissing their pants laughing at us.

IMO Chelsea showing Mourinho the door the first time goes down as one of the dumbest decisions ever in football. I think Man United picking Moyes over Mourinho is pushing that close, and only time will show whether that's true or not. I don't think we suffered the consequences of our dumb decision as much as we should have, I hope that United don't get away with their stupid decision so lightly.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:16 am  

If United had appointed Mourinho it would have been entertaining watching him cope, or not, with Fergie's continuing presence at the club.

I don't think Moyes appointment was dumb. What was dumb was:

1) Allowing Fergie to stay on as a director. Matt Busby all over again

2) The manner in which Moyes appointment was publicised. All that stuff about him being summoned to Fergie's house to be told by the great man that he'd got the job. I could understand them wanting to make it known that Fergie was happy with Moyes getting the job. But it seemed like he was Fergie's personal appointee. Like Moyes is dependent on Fergie's patronage. Whenever I see Moyes now I get a mental image of the Spitting Image puppets, Steel and Owen.

3) Allowing Fergie to comment on Rooney's return to form. Nothing wrong with the comments themselves, but they set a precedent. Once they'd made the mistake of appointing Fergie as a director they should have made it clear to him and the media that he would never comment on United's performances, current players or staff. Now if United have a bad run the press will seek out a comment from Fergie. If he stays silent prepare for "Fergie refuses to back Moyes" headlines.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:21 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

If United had appointed Mourinho it would have been entertaining watching him cope, or not, with Fergie's continuing presence at the club.

I don't think Moyes appointment was dumb. What was dumb was:

1) Allowing Fergie to stay on as a director. Matt Busby all over again.

Seriously? You think that Sir Alex Ferguson, the most successful manager ever in British football, the man who brought United 19 titles and 2 CL's, you think he shouldn't have a role at MUFC? Seriously? Think about what you're suggesting. You want Malcolm Glazer and their new chief executive to sit on one side of the table and say they want SIR ALEX FERGUSON to walk away from Old Trafford.

I'll just let you retract the suggestion. Because quite frankly there is no defending it.

Sure, Busby had a negative influence on the club when he stayed around. But Fergie will know that well. He'll know not to hamper Moyes. But Fergie should be at Man United for the rest of his life, if he wants to be. Man United now have Bobby Charlton and SAF on their boards. Two of the best statesmen and legends the British game has ever seen.

I think Mourinho would have been fine with Fergie being on the board. Mourinho has always shown Fergie the utmost respect. And then he usually went and beat him as well. Mourinho would have no problem with Fergie because they are both legendary managers. I think Moyes might have a problem working under Fergie because Fergie is a legend and Moyes is a lightweight.

2) The manner in which Moyes appointment was publicised. All that stuff about him being summoned to Fergie's house to be told by the great man that he'd got the job. I could understand them wanting to make it known that Fergie was happy with Moyes getting the job. But it seemed like he was Fergie's personal appointee. Like Moyes is dependent on Fergie's patronage. Whenever I see Moyes now I get a mental image of the Spitting Image puppets, Steel and Owen.

But the only way that Moyes appointment holds up is if he does have Fergie's patronage. Fergie's told the supporters their job is to support Moyes. The Man United fans have accepted that, even though deep down they know they've replaced a Crisitiano Ronaldo level manager with a Valencia level manager.

3) Allowing Fergie to comment on Rooney's return to form. Nothing wrong with the comments themselves, but they set a precedent. Once they'd made the mistake of appointing Fergie as a director they should have made it clear to him and the media that he would never comment on United's performances, current players or staff. Now if United have a bad run the press will seek out a comment from Fergie. If he stays silent prepare for "Fergie refuses to back Moyes" headlines.

TBH Fergie's major mistake was to tell the press about Rooney wanting to go and have it hanging over the club the whole of the off season.

Fergie will make comments when he wants to make comments. Further healing the problems surrounding Rooney will be one of the times he makes comments. Fergie will dictate what he says and when, for the good of Man United.