Re: Football Chat Thread : Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:51 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Mourinho gets sacked by Chelsea after winning 5 trophies in 3 years. Grant gets sacked by Chelsea after being runner up in a Carling Cup Final, runner up in the league and runner up in the CL final. Mourinho = 500 x Grant.

Benitez is a clearly more negative manager than Mourinho. You deride Mourinho for being negative, yet you're one of the first to tout Benitez's qualities.

Benitez is a good manager, Jose is obviously better, but I will only tout Rafa's qualities when they are being dismissed by those who bring up their Sun-fueled drivel to say he's a woeful manager. I was one of those in favour of Benitez going when he did and I still stand by that. Problem is, I used to deride Benitez for being negative, I used to fume at how long it taken him to go for it in games, for him to make the subs and his persistence with limited players when we were crying out for something else. Benitez is a flawed manager, flawed by his own stubbornness and persistence, but he is still a great manager.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

A two leg European tie against the acknowledged best team in Europe. Drawing the home leg 0-0 and going to the 2nd leg with the knowledge that an away goal could win the tie is a massive advantage. And it's one that Real would have probably had if the ref hadn't come to Barca's aide yet again.

The problem with this approach is you take away the biggest advantage of all in two legged ties; home advantage. The whole point of home and away is so that each side has the huge advantage, the problem with Mourinho is he treats both legs as away legs. When you're Real Madrid, you have a huge stadium with a big atmosphere, you're the biggest side in the world with the dearest squad, you simply can't approach games in this manner and not get results. Even 0-0 isn't acceptable IMO, he got a (slightly dubious) 3-1 with Inter last year against Barca, and Inter were/are definitely inferior to Madrid in an attacking sense.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

I dispute that Mourinho only plays negatively.

90% of the time the tactics that Mourinho employs against the best sides are the the ones he faces. He knows how to attack sides, he knows when to attack. If his side goes down, then the containment defence is sacrificed and the tactics are massively adapted to meet the changing situation. That's why, 1-0 down at the Emirates at half time and having had a player sent off, Chelsea dominated the second half and ended with a 1-1 draw. Going a goal down to West Ham and having a man sent off, they went and won 4-1. Last season in the second leg against us, we score to get back in the game and Inter go up and kill the tie within 60 seconds.

IMO Mourinho's defence would triumph over Barca's attack. As good as Barca's players and play are, they're still not good enough to be able overcome a strong defence who are committed to stopping them.

Until the refs start throwing up red cards for yellow card offences though.

He doesn't only play negatively, but it's definitely his approach against Barcelona when I feel a different approach could work, especially when the only result of note he's achieved against them was an ET win in the lowly copa del rey. IMO, the 'defence is the only option' attitude isn't always the right one, especially when you have an attack as good as Madrid's.

IMO, you saying Madrid's defence is better than Barca's attack is absolute rubbish. Madrid's attack is better than their defence, they are defensively average but, like any side, they can get by if they play 5 in midfield or 5 in defence and sit in front of their box all game. At the end of the day, when playing against something like that, it's near impossible to play against because every space worth playing in is occupied by a defender. You may think that makes Madrid strong defensively, but Barca are stronger defensively IMO, as they can attack sides yet still defend as well as anybody, even with a makeshift defence.

At the end of the day, I'm slamming Mourinho for being a loudmouth tozser, whose mouthing off off the pitch isn't justified by his side's performances on it. Not only does he continually contradict himself in many ways, he fails to live up to his own billing by using tactics that are no different to the drivel used by Hodgson and co.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:26 am  

Roddy B wrote:

Benitez is a good manager, Jose is obviously better, but I will only tout Rafa's qualities when they are being dismissed by those who bring up their Sun-fueled drivel to say he's a woeful manager. I was one of those in favour of Benitez going when he did and I still stand by that. Problem is, I used to deride Benitez for being negative, I used to fume at how long it taken him to go for it in games, for him to make the subs and his persistence with limited players when we were crying out for something else. Benitez is a flawed manager, flawed by his own stubbornness and persistence, but he is still a great manager.

Benitez is a very poor manager in my opinion. He won the European Cup with largely the side Gerard Houiller had put together a Final that AC Milan should never have lost with a commanding Half Time lead. Apart from that he only won the FA Cup and only once pushed Manchester United for the League Title in 09. Apart from that he has only been average like Roy Evans and Graeme Souness before him. He is a very negative manager who would rather settle for what he has got during games rather than go for it trying to get a victory.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:35 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

IMO Mourinho's defence would triumph over Barca's attack. As good as Barca's players and play are, they're still not good enough to be able overcome a strong defence who are committed to stopping them.

.

The most commical comment I have read on here.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:03 am  

Karlos13 wrote:

Don't like his style. It is all about him rather than the team on the pitch. Throw in his ultra negative tactics and it wouldn't sit too well with me. Would imagine most Utd fans would welcome him though.

Out of curiosity, who is the favoured choice at present, among United fans, to succeed Sir Alex?

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:49 am  

foz11 wrote:

Benitez is a very poor manager in my opinion. He won the European Cup with largely the side Gerard Houiller had put together a Final that AC Milan should never have lost with a commanding Half Time lead. Apart from that he only won the FA Cup and only once pushed Manchester United for the League Title in 09. Apart from that he has only been average like Roy Evans and Graeme Souness before him. He is a very negative manager who would rather settle for what he has got during games rather than go for it trying to get a victory.

Prime example number one. How do you explain the two la liga's? The second European cup final appearance? The Uefa cup win with Valencia? It's embarrassing that you dismiss his biggest achievement as 'somebody else's squad'; why? It doesn't matter who signed them, he still motivated them enough to win the bloody thing. You dismiss things like his tactics and even the players he brought in when he got here. Utterly numb, which alone makes your opinion poorly thought.

You knock his ability to compete as some sort of requirement; did you see who he was competing with when he was here? Mourinho, Wenger and Fergie. Probably the three greatest coaches in English football during the past 15 years or so. He could have done better, no doubt, but he still done a good job in his time here, but people like you make up opinions based on nothing but weightless drivel.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:52 am  

I think the best way to sum up Benitez is too meet it right in the middle. I don't think he is as bad as others make out, as he's obvioulsy had huge success before. But he is nowhere near as wonderful as Liverpool fans like to think.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:12 am  

People saying Benitez is a poor manager are either on a wind-up or clueless. You don't win the things he's won on pure luck.

Roddy B wrote:

It doesn't matter who signed them, he still motivated them enough to win the bloody thing.

How does his time at Inter affect his reputation? Mourinho did well with more or less the same squad. The age excuse doesn't really wash as the players were only a few months older under Benitez.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:58 am  

Catalancs wrote:

How does his time at Inter affect his reputation? Mourinho did well with more or less the same squad. The age excuse doesn't really wash as the players were only a few months older under Benitez.

Because all the chelsea fans of 8 years who live in Leeds will point out that Mourinhos success with Inter was down to his managerial skill whilst Benetiz' was down to inheriting the squad.

Ergo, still upset that they havent won a champions league, even after spending gazillions of pounds

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:05 am  

Catalancs wrote:

How does his time at Inter affect his reputation? Mourinho did well with more or less the same squad. The age excuse doesn't really wash as the players were only a few months older under Benitez.

I've mentioned his time at Inter before. Rafa is a manager who relies heavily upon great determination and hunger from his players. One of the reasons he used to chop and change the team every summer was because of this. When people show signs of mental weakness or a drop in determination, he'll get rid of them. At Inter, he was never backed to get rid of players early on, which instantly starts him off on the wrong foot. Rafa probably could have come in and tried to carry on Mourinho's good work, but he didn't, he tried to change things, he tried to revamp the club but he never had the backing of Moratti. The squad Mourinho had was ideal to his style of management, they were veteran players who were looking for their 'last chance', with Inter also being a well-hated club, he could use his 'us vs. them' approach to further motivate them. Benitez' style is very different, he prefers younger players, players looking to prove something and develop, players who will fight for places and players that will never lose motivation.

Also, from the interviews Rafa has done since, he's stated that there were people doing things behind his back, people employed by the club, not by him, i.e. he was being told a player would be out for six weeks, but later that day he'd find the player in the gym with a member of staff when he should be resting. These were club veterans and he'd never be backed to get rid.

Still, he didn't do as well as he should have there, of that there is no denying, but at the same time, it wouldn't be fair to look at some of the reasons he did struggle, and how they could have been so different.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:25 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Out of curiosity, who is the favoured choice at present, among United fans, to succeed Sir Alex?

Not sure there is a favoured choice at the moment. Would imagine a lot will go for Mourinho just because he is a big name, but it's not really talked about that much to be honest.