Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 9:30 am  

Nikaed wrote:

I think it was Rob who alluded to it earlier. I think Torres needs the right type of player around him. At LFC he had Gerrard and Benayoun. At Chelsea he has no real creative midfielder. All Lampard does is score pens and drives from edge of the box. Not a creative midfielder in the Gerrard mould.

That may be a fair comment however with the way Gerrard played that year I could probably have reached double figures. Torres has looked out of his depth with Spain too and is certainly no match for Villa even with the creative talent they have in their midfield. Give me Ian Rush any day over Torres.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 10:03 am  

www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/m ... pe=article

www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/m ... pe=article

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 10:05 am  

Sthelens RLFC wrote:

Cole has been a huge let down when he has played. Completely under performed. I'd wager he's made a lot more appearances than Benayoun though, and it's alot fairer to criticise Cole that Yossi who has hardly had a sniff at Chelsea.

Torres on the other hand (And I've followed what he has done at Chelsea ever since he has left us) has been garbage and played as much football as Ancelotti could allow before it literally got too embarrassing and he had to bring in Drogba who nearly pulled off a great escape. I don't want to see Torres do well, obviously, but he's making it very easy to point and laugh at him the way he has played. That's how he played, not how many goals he's got. He's played garbage as well as not scoring so I'm not sure which games you'd pick out as him doing well? You're not actually impling that he's been successful so far? I've no doubt he will be once Chelsea learn how to utilise him but he's been the worst signing of any club in 2011 BAR NONE.

He has linked the play pretty well since hes moved imo. TBH its obvious to me that all you see is his lack of goals and laugh due to you been a LFC fan, which isnt a problem
Benayoun has been our worst signing because he hasnt played. If a player doesnt play its been a bad signing.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 11:16 am  

Superbowl Scott wrote:

He has linked the play pretty well since hes moved imo. TBH its obvious to me that all you see is his lack of goals and laugh due to you been a LFC fan, which isnt a problem

If Cole had ever been that great Chelsea would not have let him go. Aside from a couple of sparkling moments for England I'm hard pressed to remember anything else he's done since he first came on the scene as a kid.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 11:23 am  

Catalancs wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/18/premier-league-best-worst-2010-2011?cat=football&type=article

Have done a template here if people want to post their selections on here.

Player of the season

Manager of the season

Goal of the season

Match of the season

Signing of the season

Flop of the season

Gripe of the season

Pundit of the season

Innovations needed for next season

League of the season

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 11:27 am  

McClennan wrote:

If Cole had ever been that great Chelsea would not have let him go. Aside from a couple of sparkling moments for England I'm hard pressed to remember anything else he's done since he first came on the scene as a kid.

He had one really good season at Chelsea, playing right of the three. They season they won the league, he scored against United in a 3-0 win towards the end of the season at Stamford Bridge with a dragback etc, struggling to work out what season it was, Robben was wide left, I think 05-06, I'm pretty certain he was in the team of the year.

I don't think he ever fully recovered from injury myself. That, and the likes of Mourinho in order for him to be successful coached the fun stuff out of him almost, he needed to be given an Okacha role, but at a 'big club' that would never happen. Stuff he did when he broke onto the scene was great to watch.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 11:36 am  

McClennan wrote:

That may be a fair comment however with the way Gerrard played that year I could probably have reached double figures. Torres has looked out of his depth with Spain too and is certainly no match for Villa even with the creative talent they have in their midfield. Give me Ian Rush any day over Torres.

I've mentioned before, Spain are creative but not in a sense that plays to Torres' strengths; one of the reasons he wanted to go to Chelsea - and not other clubs outside of England - was because the English game suits him. International football is much closer to the football played on the continent than it is over here: it's much more tactical, it's less direct and it generally plays out as one dominant side possession-wise and one side counter-attacking. As we seen with Torres during his time at Liverpool, he is generally limited in the ways to get the best out of him: he likes quick, direct passing that is preferably slide rule, he likes to lead the line on his own and generally look to exploit both channels, he doesn't like to hold it up too much, he doesn't create too much and he generally tries to stay out of build up play, but he's generally a willing runner who can break the offside trap and hold off defenders in 50/50 situations. For Spain, they generally employ a possession-first mentality, which resulted in them moving Villa to the left because he wasn't getting enough of the ball. Xavi and Iniesta, for all their ability, will mostly choose to keep the ball over the risky through ball, hence the reason Fabregas has had success for Spain when coming in - he's generally more direct and changes the play more often when Spain need it.

I wouldn't say Torres is a one-season-wonder, either, have a look at his scoring ratio and it's always been good; however, at Liverpool he did suffer consistent injuries, whilst our side's overall decline didn't help, either. He will come good for Chelsea, I've no doubt about that, but they need to get their heads around how to use him. He isn't Drogba, he isn't Anelka, he's a very unique player that needs to be built around. If it's done well, he'll be a top 5 striker worldwide, if he's just stuck in there and expected to play in a way that's alien to him, with players around him that are oblivious to his strengths, then Chelsea may as well get rid of him now, as he'll be of absolutely no use to them.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 11:42 am  

Player of the season : Vincent Kompany

Manager of the season : Sir Alex

Goal of the season : Messi v Madrid

Match of the season : Barca 5 - 0 Madrid, just for purely mouth open, amazement.

Signing of the season : Peter Odemwingie.

Flop of the season : Jerome Boateng

Gripe of the season : Shirt pulling at set pieces largely going unpunished.

Pundit of the season : Souness, every time.

Innovations needed for next season : Female linesman.

League of the season : EPL, purely for the relegation battle.

Also, I'll add, players who you thought were sh!te, that you'll admit you were wrong about. For me :

Stewart Downing, DJ Campbell & Jerome Thomas.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 11:49 am  

Player of the season - Vidic: if Bale' Euro performances count then so should his. Been a rock for probably the best defence in Europe this year.

Manager of the season - Taggart.

Goal of the season - Can't think of this at the mo.

Match of the season - Again, can't think.

Signing of the season - Odemwingie, thought he'd always played well for Nigeria, was surprised it took him so long to 'arrive'.

Flop of the season - Torres.

Gripe of the season - Pundits in general. The coverage of football is woefully done across the board. IMO, the majority of pundits should step aside, with knowledgeable pundits/journo's/whoever being chosen instead of the usual dross we get.

Pundit of the season - Marcotti, if he counts.

Innovations needed for next season - Gradual introduction of technology. Yes, it's a massive can of worms, but it has to be used, starting with hawk-eye for goals.

League of the season - Bundesliga, not because it's been the best quality, but because Dortmund - a side with probably the best support in Europe - won the league.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Wed May 18, 2011 11:54 am  

McClennan wrote:

I got laughed at a couple of years ago for saying that Torres was a one season wonder and now look at him. Looks like I was right all along

His goal scoring record at Liverpool and his late Atletico time would prove that he isn't a one season wonder

Roddy B wrote:

I wouldn't say Torres is a one-season-wonder, either, have a look at his scoring ratio and it's always been good; however, at Liverpool he did suffer consistent injuries, whilst our side's overall decline didn't help, either. He will come good for Chelsea, I've no doubt about that, but they need to get their heads around how to use him. He isn't Drogba, he isn't Anelka, he's a very unique player that needs to be built around. If it's done well, he'll be a top 5 striker worldwide, if he's just stuck in there and expected to play in a way that's alien to him, with players around him that are oblivious to his strengths, then Chelsea may as well get rid of him now, as he'll be of absolutely no use to them.

You still rate him as the most complete number 9 in the world Rob?