Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:11 am  

ive looked back the last 4 pages and cant see this posted anywhere. im surprised the man ure fans didnt jump on it straight away and post it as they are so rabid in their condemnation of racism (especially amongst fans of a certain club.)maybe their ladders toppled and they couldnt get off the horses...................


A Manchester United fan has been charged for shouting racist abuse at opposition players during a Premier League football match.
******, is accused of a racially aggravated public order offence and using threatening words or behaviour to cause harassment, alarm or distress.
****** , of Manchester, was arrested at the Manchester United v Stoke City game on Tuesday.
During the match a spectator made a complaint to stewards that a fan in the north stand was shouting abusive comments towards Stoke City players. Police were informed and ****** was arrested.
He is due to appear at Trafford magistrates court on Wednesday.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:59 am  

I wouldn't go back to Gerrard, been there done that. Not that I think he did a bad job as England captain more that i'd let him concentrate on his role and trying to find his best from for England in what could be his last major tournament should be his sole focus. Throw in that he's had his fair share of off field issues and the fact that the world cup was a debacle and he was the captain that led that.

Also, I'm not sure it's about whether say Scott Parker, what the captaincy will do for his game, I think it's more about what Scott Parker could do for the captaincy. For years now the armband has been tossed around, Eriksson started this by seemingly with every substitution a new captain, Capello has changed his mind etc and I think we've all become a little disillusioned by it. I think Joe Public need a captain that they can relate to again like they did with Adams, Butcher etc. I don't think most folk expect us to win the tournament, but to give 100% and show all the usual 'passion, commitment' etc, I think he could be the right man for that task.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:02 am  

CORNISH wrote:

ive looked back the last 4 pages and cant see this posted anywhere. im surprised the man ure fans didnt jump on it straight away and post it as they are so rabid in their condemnation of racism (especially amongst fans of a certain club.)maybe their ladders toppled and they couldnt get off the horses...................


A Manchester United fan has been charged for shouting racist abuse at opposition players during a Premier League football match.
******, is accused of a racially aggravated public order offence and using threatening words or behaviour to cause harassment, alarm or distress.
****** , of Manchester, was arrested at the Manchester United v Stoke City game on Tuesday.
During the match a spectator made a complaint to stewards that a fan in the north stand was shouting abusive comments towards Stoke City players. Police were informed and ****** was arrested.
He is due to appear at Trafford magistrates court on Wednesday.

Then he, just like Suarez, is a bell-end

HTH

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:31 am  

100% Wire wrote:

Then he, just like Suarez, is a bell-end

HTH

Indeed, and good to see it was a supporter who reported it,

No doubt the player who was on the receiving end will get whole heartedly booed next time the teams play for having the temerity to be on the receiving end of such unpleasantness

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:33 am  

Roddy B wrote: I'm arguing what effect a leader has on a pitch. People say they give players direction, but they don't. They say they inspire team mates, but I don't believe they do. Just about the only thing a captain can be good for is telling a player to calm down, or giving him a mouthful for something stupid. For me, football has become so detailed, so professional and so 'hard' that I don't believe captains stand out anymore. What us fans find inspirational, for me, doesn't translate to anything on the field. It's like pundits when they say "Gerrard took the game by the scruff of the neck" nonsense, what they mean is he dribbled with the ball or played a one-two. You're quite right to point out the obviousness of what Gerrard did but leadership and captaincy isn't a science. It isn't rational. You can't just say that all Gerrard did was just dribble or play a one-two. He lifted his team mates though his actions and that is just a small part of leadership. I don't think you can underestimate this. You can overestimate it yes, which is what you appear to be saying, but that CL final is a great example of it working. It might not have taken much more effort for him to do it when it arose but when you're down 3-0, deflated, moping around looking for a spark (as it was on the terraces and look how he inspired them) and your captain is throwing himself around the pitch to make something happen when it looks like all hope is lost can have a positive effect on the others' mental attitude. It's the "If he can do it, so can I" philosophy and at the very top end of sports mental toughness is critical. Without it you will not be the very best. Roddy B wrote: If you looked at most of Barcelona's players, they aren't leaders in the English sense. They aren't strong, massively industrious, they don't do crunching tackles or put their bodies on the line. For me, Puyol is the captain because he's the oldest and most experienced, when Barcelona are trouncing sides 5-0, I don't look and see Puyol asserting his leadership, but he's still captain. Similarly, Real Madrid have Iker Casillas as captain, as do Spain, are you telling me that, whilst Spain are out there with 65% possession, Casillas is inspiring them and leading by example? You've answered your own question there by naming Puyol who is quite an inspirational captain if you ask me. I know you mentioned Barca in the last post and asked about who the captain was there. Well there was a match last year or the year before (can't remember who they were playing) when it was Puyol's leadership that changed the game for them. It must have been an 'El Classico' or Champs league game (I don't watch their other strolls). He will play as a captain whether he's chosen as it or not. Leading by example isn't always running around and getting stuck in though. It's as much about mental leadership as it is visual theatrics. Roddy B wrote: Basically, I think the role of captain is overstated and we could appoint just about anybody and it wouldn't matter. It may be overstated but you can't dismiss it so easily either. We have a culture and history of leaders. Think of all the tales we know, Alexander the Great, Julius Caeser, Jesus Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, Churchill etc., all leaders who inspired one way or another. It's understandable that we place so much importance on it because we, as a society, value it to the point of me being able to mention historical leaders from countries thousands of miles away. Roddy B wrote: If any of our players don't like it because they don't get inspired by him or he doesn't 'lead' them, they should dropped and never considered again for having too weak a mentality. I'm sorry but if you have a leader you don't believe in you begin to question them which can lead to you ignore them, disrespecting them, losing faith etc., which can all lead to deteriorations in performance. It's one of the reasons that the Terry situation has come up. Ask yourself if you were a professional footballer and got picked to play for your country but the team captain didn't like your ethnicity. That would cause serious problems for the team. Perhaps the easiest way to look at a captain is like one of Herzberg's hygiene factors i.e. a captain may not add an extra 10%-20% to your performance but without a good one you may experience a drop in overall team performance i.e. take Hansen, Keane, Terry, Kompany, out of their line-ups and you didn't just lose somebody of good technical ability you lost something else, an intangible that cannot be measured but one that you know is there. When your team is under pressure that's when mental fortitude, leadership and captaincy play its part. It is something that David Beckham understood when playing for England even if he didn't have the presence of a Gerrard to really carry it off. The easiest thing to compare it to is have you ever been inspired or lifted whilst working with somebody or have you ever done that yourself. It happens everyday so it stands to reason that, in a sport where teamwork is essential, there will always be those who bring a bit more than just their technical ability to the table. The psychology of sports is a very important aspect of the game. So important that many clubs now employ their own. Having a captain out on the field is like having somebody out there who understands that.

Roddy B wrote: I'm arguing what effect a leader has on a pitch. People say they give players direction, but they don't. They say they inspire team mates, but I don't believe they do. Just about the only thing a captain can be good for is telling a player to calm down, or giving him a mouthful for something stupid. For me, football has become so detailed, so professional and so 'hard' that I don't believe captains stand out anymore. What us fans find inspirational, for me, doesn't translate to anything on the field. It's like pundits when they say "Gerrard took the game by the scruff of the neck" nonsense, what they mean is he dribbled with the ball or played a one-two. You're quite right to point out the obviousness of what Gerrard did but leadership and captaincy isn't a science. It isn't rational. You can't just say that all Gerrard did was just dribble or play a one-two. He lifted his team mates though his actions and that is just a small part of leadership. I don't think you can underestimate this. You can overestimate it yes, which is what you appear to be saying, but that CL final is a great example of it working. It might not have taken much more effort for him to do it when it arose but when you're down 3-0, deflated, moping around looking for a spark (as it was on the terraces and look how he inspired them) and your captain is throwing himself around the pitch to make something happen when it looks like all hope is lost can have a positive effect on the others' mental attitude. It's the "If he can do it, so can I" philosophy and at the very top end of sports mental toughness is critical. Without it you will not be the very best. Roddy B wrote: If you looked at most of Barcelona's players, they aren't leaders in the English sense. They aren't strong, massively industrious, they don't do crunching tackles or put their bodies on the line. For me, Puyol is the captain because he's the oldest and most experienced, when Barcelona are trouncing sides 5-0, I don't look and see Puyol asserting his leadership, but he's still captain. Similarly, Real Madrid have Iker Casillas as captain, as do Spain, are you telling me that, whilst Spain are out there with 65% possession, Casillas is inspiring them and leading by example? You've answered your own question there by naming Puyol who is quite an inspirational captain if you ask me. I know you mentioned Barca in the last post and asked about who the captain was there. Well there was a match last year or the year before (can't remember who they were playing) when it was Puyol's leadership that changed the game for them. It must have been an 'El Classico' or Champs league game (I don't watch their other strolls). He will play as a captain whether he's chosen as it or not. Leading by example isn't always running around and getting stuck in though. It's as much about mental leadership as it is visual theatrics. Roddy B wrote: Basically, I think the role of captain is overstated and we could appoint just about anybody and it wouldn't matter. It may be overstated but you can't dismiss it so easily either. We have a culture and history of leaders. Think of all the tales we know, Alexander the Great, Julius Caeser, Jesus Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, Churchill etc., all leaders who inspired one way or another. It's understandable that we place so much importance on it because we, as a society, value it to the point of me being able to mention historical leaders from countries thousands of miles away. Roddy B wrote: If any of our players don't like it because they don't get inspired by him or he doesn't 'lead' them, they should dropped and never considered again for having too weak a mentality. I'm sorry but if you have a leader you don't believe in you begin to question them which can lead to you ignore them, disrespecting them, losing faith etc., which can all lead to deteriorations in performance. It's one of the reasons that the Terry situation has come up. Ask yourself if you were a professional footballer and got picked to play for your country but the team captain didn't like your ethnicity. That would cause serious problems for the team. Perhaps the easiest way to look at a captain is like one of Herzberg's hygiene factors i.e. a captain may not add an extra 10%-20% to your performance but without a good one you may experience a drop in overall team performance i.e. take Hansen, Keane, Terry, Kompany, out of their line-ups and you didn't just lose somebody of good technical ability you lost something else, an intangible that cannot be measured but one that you know is there. When your team is under pressure that's when mental fortitude, leadership and captaincy play its part. It is something that David Beckham understood when playing for England even if he didn't have the presence of a Gerrard to really carry it off. The easiest thing to compare it to is have you ever been inspired or lifted whilst working with somebody or have you ever done that yourself. It happens everyday so it stands to reason that, in a sport where teamwork is essential, there will always be those who bring a bit more than just their technical ability to the table. The psychology of sports is a very important aspect of the game. So important that many clubs now employ their own. Having a captain out on the field is like having somebody out there who understands that.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:38 am  

Roddy B wrote:

I'm arguing what effect a leader has on a pitch. People say they give players direction, but they don't. They say they inspire team mates, but I don't believe they do. Just about the only thing a captain can be good for is telling a player to calm down, or giving him a mouthful for something stupid. For me, football has become so detailed, so professional and so 'hard' that I don't believe captains stand out anymore. What us fans find inspirational, for me, doesn't translate to anything on the field. It's like pundits when they say "Gerrard took the game by the scruff of the neck" nonsense, what they mean is he dribbled with the ball or played a one-two. People now are saying Scott Parker should be captain, why? Because he tackles well? Because he works hard? Because he "leads by example"? For me, that elasticated armband wouldn't make any of England's players play any better or worse, I don't think Parker's game would change with it on, I don't think Gerrard's game changed, or Terry's, or Beckham's.

If you looked at most of Barcelona's players, they aren't leaders in the English sense. They aren't strong, massively industrious, they don't do crunching tackles or put their bodies on the line. For me, Puyol is the captain because he's the oldest and most experienced, when Barcelona are trouncing sides 5-0, I don't look and see Puyol asserting his leadership, but he's still captain. Similarly, Real Madrid have Iker Casillas as captain, as do Spain, are you telling me that, whilst Spain are out there with 65% possession, Casillas is inspiring them and leading by example?

Basically, I think the role of captain is overstated and we could appoint just about anybody and it wouldn't matter. If any of our players don't like it because they don't get inspired by him or he doesn't 'lead' them, they should dropped and never considered again for having too weak a mentality.

Even in these low contact days, I'd rather see someone of the ilk of vidic, keane or Robson lead united out than even legend like giggs.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:45 am  

I think the British (English?) obsession with captaincy is part of a wider cultural thing here where people seem to need a hierarchy and to know their place in the line.

I was in Spain the last time the whole England captaincy issue kicked off and my friends there couldn't believe what all the fuss was about, the prevailing attitude there was that the captain is usually the oldest or most experienced regular player and it's nothing to get worked up about.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:01 am  

ha ha ha looks like JT is finished for england. other players now reported as saying they dont even want him in the team............
terry is waaaaank anyway, no loss to the team (which will do its usual at the euro s ie fook all)

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:33 am  

CORNISH wrote:

ha ha ha looks like JT is finished for england. other players now reported as saying they dont even want him in the team............
terry is waaaaank anyway, no loss to the team (which will do its usual at the euro s ie fook all)

Who?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:08 pm  

Who?