Re: Football Chat Thread : Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:02 pm  

Superbowl Scott wrote:

:lol:

I stopped reading your post at that point.

Shame you never read on, otherwise you would have read one of the best and most accurate posts I have seen on any of RL Fans in quite some time.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:31 pm  

McClennan wrote:

You're living on scraps and crumbs mofo lol.

Both should have been dealt with. The second was a simple shot, beat at the near post.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:15 pm  

Nikaed wrote:

Both should have been dealt with. The second was a simple shot, beat at the near post.

The rule I was always tought was that the keeper covers the side of the goal which the wall doesn't.

If the ball goes over the wall and in - it's just a good freekick.

If the ball goes through the wall - the wall is at fault. Simple.


If Milner hadn't moved, that goal wouldn't have been scored, the keeper put him in that position for a reason.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:17 pm  

Any international keeper should be able to stop a shot straight at him at the near post.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:19 pm  

inside_man wrote:

The rule I was always tought was that the keeper covers the side of the goal which the wall doesn't.

If the ball goes over the wall and in - it's just a good freekick.

If the ball goes through the wall - the wall is at fault. Simple.


If Milner hadn't moved, that goal wouldn't have been scored, the keeper put him in that position for a reason.

All of those points are correct. The fact Walcott waves at Milner as if to say why did you break from the wall as soon as the shot goes past them says it all. A keeper has to trust his wall to do it's job while he covers the part of goal not protected by the wall.

If a keeper wants to cover all of the goal himself from a free kick then he wouldn't ask for a wall at all.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:26 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

When did Cole last play well for England? He is living off the reputation he developed as a kid at Arsenal. Baines is twice the player Cole is and has been in form all season. Same with the likes of Terry and Ferdinand. They are yesterdays news and no longer good enough. Wilshere looks great for Arsenal, playing amongst megastars in such a fluent side. You cannot seriously be saying he played well yesterday? He looked lost, he's got no engine on him at all. He looks classy popping three yard passes back to Fabregas and Arshavin and going on the odd dribble, but ask him to control a midfield at international level and he's lost and unwilling to contemplate the defensive side of the game. He's got a hell of a lot of learning to do before he's ready to play for England and a midfield of Parker and Wilshere will never work. They were incredibly lucky to not lose at home to Switzerland. Says it all about England and the fact they are struggling to qualify from the group they are in is no surprise.

Do you watch England often? Cole has been one of, if not the best player for England over the last year. He's one of the very few who isn't living off a reputation. He hasn't had the best of season's for Chelsea (by his standards) but has still done well. Baines has been in better form than Cole this season, didn't say anything otherwise, but to label Cole as 'rubbish' is plain stupid.

As for Wilshere, you do realise he's 19 and has just finished his first full season in the top flight? I don't know why anyone would be asking a 19-year-old winning just his 5th cap to be controlling a midfield at international level with two far more experienced players alongside him. You say he has a lot of learning to do before he's ready for England; please name me the players' you'd have in front of him. As a nation, we have a distinct lack of players' who are comfortable in possession, yet you'd happily remove one of the limited number we actually have from the side as he's 'rubbish'? Madness. Almost as mad as the guy on the 'Your England 11' thread who wouldn't pick Rooney in his side.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:34 am  

Dan_FC wrote:

I think that's a great post, except I'd like to know how you define 'little is expected of him and the club' there's a lot of expectation from the fans and Moyes has came in for a lot of stick at times from fans for the way he approaches games and his negative tactics. At the start of last season a lot of people where tipping us to go very well and even push for a top 5/6 place because, in Moyes' own words, it was the best squad he's had at Everton. There's a lot expected of him and the squad, just because the media/pundits don't expect a lot it doesn't mean the fans don't either. I also think we're a lot closer to pushing for the top four than you give us credit for, a fully fit squad we've got an exceptional bunch of players right throughout the squad. We do need some improvement, especially upfront but at the moment we've got a very good starting 11 with a decent back up.

I think you're getting expectations mixed up with delusions.

What I meant was: Everton aren't expected to win a trophy every year, I'm sorry, but they aren't. There is little investment in the club to justify those expectations. Everton fans want improvement every year, as do fans of every club, but to put Everton's targets into perspective by comparing them to those of the top 5/6 clubs, the drop off in expectations is evident. They have a demanding fan base, as do most clubs, but you don't have the media demanding improvement/results, largely because you don't spend the money to command that sort of attention.

As for the top 4 thing, Everton have always had a solid side under Moyes. You will always have a strong spine of players, but Moyes' inability to spot a top striker (I may be being harsh there, but if you compare his results with strikers compared to other positions, he's invested quite a bit and hasn't really been rewarded) has generally held you back; however, bridging that gap is a lot more challenging than it looks. On paper, it looks like 6 points (this year the gap between 4th and 5th was 6), but over the course of the season, that gap could be two/three signings. We were 10 points off 4th this year, many feel that we only need a few quality players and we're back in there, but I'm of the belief we need at least 8 players coming in this summer, and even then I feel we'll need to gel as a side before we can put on a 9 month challenge for the top 4.

Everton are a good club that don't try to live beyond their means, but if Moyes left for a similarly placed club that would give him money to reach higher targets, I'm unsure how he'd do, as the gap between the Champions League and 'the rest' is a lot harder to bridge than it looks on paper.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:55 am  

Roddy B, being realistic, Everton wouldn't have much of a chance of unearthing a real gem of a striker on a couple of points. I very much doubt they have an international scouting network, plus, when there is a potential star to be identified, it is always the strikers who go for top dollar, even just for paying for potential attracts big money. They are goosed on both counts.

I can see Moyes leaving, as much as Everton have been loyal to Moyes, he has rewarded them with the same and then some. I see the challenge of getting Villa into to a Champions League spot the kind of thing he owuld relish, even moreso knowing he didn't have the spending capacity o their peers.

On a side note, it is interesting to read thar 'arry is linked with Joe Cole and Scott Parker in today's papers. What is his obsession witn=h midfielders?

Re: Football Chat Thread : Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:23 pm  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

Roddy B, being realistic, Everton wouldn't have much of a chance of unearthing a real gem of a striker on a couple of points. I very much doubt they have an international scouting network,

May sound odd, but, I think I once remember reading something about Everton forging a partnership with the makers of Football Manager. I'm pretty sure the owners/original creators are Everton fans, so they allowed the club to use their worldwide scouting database. Not trying to say they do have a strong scouting network, just thought I'd mention it, just in case anybody could back it up.

Anyway, I think the problem also stems a little deeper other than 'not finding talent'. I personally feel Moyes struggles to get the best from forwards, he very often just asks them to be 'willing' and lead the line, preferring to get his goals from the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Osman and co. He's even played Cahill up front in the past which sort of worked, it reminded me a little of the old Roma formation under Spalletti, where he played Totti up front on his own and decided to pack his midfield and get goals from there, but the stupendous Totti still scored loads.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:29 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

I think you're getting expectations mixed up with delusions.

I know all about delusions, I've spoke to enough Liverpool fans over the years

Roddy B wrote:

What I meant was: Everton aren't expected to win a trophy every year, I'm sorry, but they aren't. There is little investment in the club to justify those expectations. Everton fans want improvement every year, as do fans of every club, but to put Everton's targets into perspective by comparing them to those of the top 5/6 clubs, the drop off in expectations is evident. They have a demanding fan base, as do most clubs, but you don't have the media demanding improvement/results, largely because you don't spend the money to command that sort of attention.

As for the top 4 thing, Everton have always had a solid side under Moyes. You will always have a strong spine of players, but Moyes' inability to spot a top striker (I may be being harsh there, but if you compare his results with strikers compared to other positions, he's invested quite a bit and hasn't really been rewarded) has generally held you back; however, bridging that gap is a lot more challenging than it looks. On paper, it looks like 6 points (this year the gap between 4th and 5th was 6), but over the course of the season, that gap could be two/three signings. We were 10 points off 4th this year, many feel that we only need a few quality players and we're back in there, but I'm of the belief we need at least 8 players coming in this summer, and even then I feel we'll need to gel as a side before we can put on a 9 month challenge for the top 4.

Everton are a good club that don't try to live beyond their means, but if Moyes left for a similarly placed club that would give him money to reach higher targets, I'm unsure how he'd do, as the gap between the Champions League and 'the rest' is a lot harder to bridge than it looks on paper.

A brilliant post mate, very true. Maybe it's because of these 'delusions' that you speak that I can't see why Moyes would want to leave for someone like Villa but someone as an outsider or impartial it seems to be a decent move. Moyes is a very ambitious manager, IMO, and really wants to make it at the top level which is why I questionned you saying he could sit here for years and steadily increase his reputation without ever really excelling. I think he's a manager with big ambitions and probably looks up to the like of Ferguson and wants to achieve some of the things he has in the game. Until he's given a big pot of money and allowed to really test himself in the transfer market and at the top end of the league I don't think we'll ever be able to judge how good a manager he can/will be. I think the fact that us finishing around 7th/8th is seen by the media and those outside the club as a good season sums up where the club is at the moment. You're right, there's no pressure of media expectations because we have little money to spend and are highly unlikely to spend big anytime soon, which as a fan is really frustrating.

You made a good point in a later post about Moyes and his strikers, he's never really been able to bring in a top quality striker and build a side around them. Yakubu aside his striker choices have been low key or players coming to the latter stages of their career i.e Beckford and Saha. He loves to build a midfield of hard working players who can attack and bring goals too, he loves to play Cahill of the front man and has said many times he wants more goals from midfield. I think defensively and midfield (providing no one leaves) we have the basis for a very good top 6 team, a new striker - who can score regular and we may be able to challenge higher at times during the season but without a big, deep squad we're unlikely to be able to challenge all season.