Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:14 pm  

Mark wrote:

It was a tongue n cheek remark. Rodgers has shown his class the past year. Although, I think he turned the ball over in those games when he had the chance to win, I know for sure the Redskins game he turned it over in OT. The 4th quarter stat is relevant though as some teams don't have the supporting cast that others do.

It is relevant but you can't suggest it is a rule for greatness because even the very best i.e. Montana, has sailed through seasons where the number of times he was called on wasn't that often due to the 49ers being in a comfortable position. Joe Cool had enough evidence in the bank to put paid to such assertions so that when he was manhandled when he was at his peak people gave credit to the opposition for stopping him rather than suggested it was a failing on his part.

I doubt that, currently, there is a sample size big enough to make any sort of worthwhile assessment on Rodgers comeback ability. Give it a few more years and perhaps a case can be made but currently, how many games are we talking about where Rodgers has been in a fourth quarter comeback position and what is the won-lost ratio? Given he's only played about four seasons it's probably a bit early to be suggesting he can't do it and if his team plays like it did yesterday he may find himself in that position during the play offs when the true legends are made. Even then context is all important i.e. if he's missing his star wide receiver that could well impact on his ability to perform, and statistics make no reference to that.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:11 pm  

Mark wrote:

It was a tongue n cheek remark. Rodgers has shown his class the past year. Although, I think he turned the ball over in those games when he had the chance to win, I know for sure the Redskins game he turned it over in OT. The 4th quarter stat is relevant though as some teams don't have the supporting cast that others do.

Yeah, it's just an anomally at this stage, and in general I just don't like the stat because it doesn't take account of the other factors which lead to the defeat(or win) and puts it all on the QB.

For example:

Redskins game- They got level with 1:07 left and Rodgers drove down field. Crosby missed a game winning FG from 53 with time expiring. I'm also pretty sure he was given a concussion from a blow to the head in this game- maybe even on the INT.

Dolphins game- 69 yard drive to level the game up with 13 seconds left. Terrible punt in OT gave the Dolphins the ball at our 48.

Cardinals game- I will never be convinced that it was not either a facemask or the tuck rule. I still don't think that play should stand.

Chiefs game- Terrible performance overall, however Newhouse (in for Clifton) was abused all game by Hali. Bulaga and his replacement Sherrod both got injured. Our line was poor.

Anyway I believe A-Rod has 3 4QC's and 6 4th quarter game winning drives. OT he is 0-5.

First year as a starter we went 6-10. 7 of the losses were by 4 points or less. Last year we went 10-6 and all of our losses were by 4 or less.

He is still the best QB in the league by a clear distance.....followed by Breesus Christ and Brady (in that order). Anyway 4QC's are irrelevant because we rarely ever trail.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:27 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

He is still the best QB in the league by a clear distance

good one.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:44 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

He is still the best QB in the league by a clear distance.....followed by Breesus Christ and Brady (in that order)

He really isn't the best 'by a clear distance'

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:47 pm  

The thing is with Rodgers is he has the best WRs in the league....but once 1 of them went down he struggled. Brees & Brady have lesser targets and constantly put up the numbers and wins no matter who they have at WR/TE.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:51 pm  

If it wasn't for the Packers record Brees would win the MVP by a mile this year IMO.

I would say at this moment in time Brees is just in front of Rodgers and Brady but there is not much between any of them. I also think that the Packers will be beaten by the Saints in the NFC championship game, you heard it here 1st

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:05 pm  

Gronk! wrote:

The thing is with Rodgers is he has the best WRs in the league....but once 1 of them went down he struggled. Brees & Brady have lesser targets and constantly put up the numbers and wins no matter who they have at WR/TE.

He has the best group because he makes them the best. How can you say Rodgers wouldn't put up those numbers with other players? Wes Welker isn't a particularly standout WR but Tom Brady makes him one.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:18 pm  

Ndamukong wrote:

He has the best group because he makes them the best. How can you say Rodgers wouldn't put up those numbers with other players? Wes Welker isn't a particularly standout WR but Tom Brady makes him one.

Given the choice between Jennings, Nelson, Jones & Driver or Branch, Welker, Underwood & Ochocinco I'd take the receivers Rodgers has every time, Brady has Welker and a bunch of nobodies to put up with.

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:19 pm  

Adamjk wrote:

He really isn't the best 'by a clear distance'

He is. There is no QB better than him. Certainly not this year. The stats and performances have been unbelievable. He was (i doubt he will break them all now) on course to break virtually every QB record ever held. IIRC currently holds the record for best regular season career QB rating and holds the record for the best QB rating in play-off history.

LFCPatriotRhino wrote:

If it wasn't for the Packers record Brees would win the MVP by a mile this year IMO.

I would say at this moment in time Brees is just in front of Rodgers and Brady but there is not much between any of them. I also think that the Packers will be beaten by the Saints in the NFC championship game, you heard it here 1st

I too think unless we can improve our defence then that will happen.

Out of interest why do you think Brees is better than Rodgers? (genuinely interested).

Re: The All new NFL Chat thread including playoff talk : Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:27 pm  

Gronk! wrote:

The thing is with Rodgers is he has the best WRs in the league....but once 1 of them went down he struggled. Brees & Brady have lesser targets and constantly put up the numbers and wins no matter who they have at WR/TE.

I can see your point and we do have a great receiving core (as do the Saints) but Rodgers makes them as good as they are with his throws. You will rarely see one of our receivers getting cleaned out by a big hit, Rodgers is very accurate and puts it where only they can catch it.

However I think it showed last year that Rodgers can put up the numbers and wins no matter who we have in the team and he has done so (statistically at least) throughout his career. Last night was a bad overall performance but more to do with essentially having back-up tackles at both LT and RT more than losing Jennings.

If you are considering our receiving core as counting against Rodgers then you also have to give him credit for playing behind (out of the top QB's) probably consistently the worst offensive line. He is sacked and hit far more than Brees/Brady are.