: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:22 pm  

Enfield Exile wrote:

At least Butt has a bit of a pedigree and ability.

But he doesn't! He's finished. He has a bit of pedigree, simply because he used to play for Man Utd. As for ability, I'll give you that one. He has the uncanny ability of giving the ball away to the opposition in crucial areas of the pitch. Apart from that, no ability whatsoever.

A few years ago he wasn't too bad but that was then, this is now.

As for pretty much saying Guthrie has no ability, what exactly do you judge that on? Crazy comment.

Enfield Exile wrote:

I haven't read any post from you that suggests you know anything about football apart from what Talksport tells you.

You think Nicky Butt is better than Danny Guthrie, that tells me all I need to know about you.

Enfield Exile wrote:

Do you honestly think your knowledge of City players is better than mine?

Please point out where I claimed that. As with any fan of any team, I'd expect you to know more about your team than a fan of another team.

Enfield Exile wrote:

Bit of an expert re Johnson, eh? How does he compare with Anderson in terms of the following:
* Heading ability
* Ability to score
* Pace
* Dribbling
* Passing
* Football intelligence
* Protecting the defence

What are Johnson's weaknesses on the field?

I actually think that Johnson is a good player, hence why I would have been pleased if he signed for Newcastle.

As for comparing the two, Johnson is a 'safe' player, he will do the simple things right and does them well too. When he gets forward, he can look dangerous at times but he doesn't really cause defences too many problems, whether that is creating goals or playing a killer pass. Anderson is more combative; very tidy in the middle of the pitch. Brilliant with the ball at his feet and looks a far bigger threat when going forward. Although Johnson can fire in a goal, I still believe Anderson offers more in attack. His work-rate is superb. They both protect the back four well but I rate Anderson the better of the two, mainly due to his engine allowing him to quickly break away and turn defence into attack.

Enfield Exile wrote:

I merely stated that Carrick should never play for England. He’s not international quality – which pretty much all of his international appearances have shown.

Earlier on in his career, I'd have agreed. However, he's come on a lot and deserves his place in the side. His most recent performance in an England shirt (before the Spain game) was against Germany. He was the best player on the park and controlled things brilliantly in what was a very understrength England side.

Enfield Exile wrote:

If international caps (U21 and senior) are the measure of quality, are you saying that Daniel Sturridge isn’t very good or not likely to be? Is Frazier Campbell better than Sturridge? After all, he has more caps.

They aren't the measure of quality, but they do give an indication. More often than not, you don't pick up International caps if you're not good enough to be in there.

For what it's worth, I rate Sturridge higher than Campbell.

Enfield Exile wrote:

International caps? Not many at U21 as he has been injured so often. Still, name a midfielder from this country who was as good as Johnson at 19.

I think you're making Johnson out to be better than he is here. Yes, he had a decent season last year but that hardly merits the question of naming a midfielder better than him at 19 when quite frankly, there is a lack of them in this country.

As I've said, I rate Johnson and believe he's a good player, just not to the same level you're making him out to be.

Enfield Exile wrote:

Carrick looks decent fotr United. Jeez, even some of your players would look mid-table Premiership quality if they played for United.

He hasn't just been decent though, he's been a key player for them this season and has stood out. He's more than deserved his place in the England side.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:35 pm  

Nemanja wrote:

Getting on the field would be a start.

I did say that. Please pay attention.

Anderson is very good at passing, running with the ball, and protecting the defence. He's pacy as well. I'd say the only thing Johnson has that Anderson doesn't have is goals. Yet, Anderson can take European Cup final penalties.

Anderson a good passer of the ball? You are kidding me. Virtually everytime I see him play his passing is best described as 'hit and miss'.

I would say that Johnson is superior at running with the ball (after all he has an end product), better in front of goal and his movement is top class. Although the moves he busts at 5th Avenue and 42nd are not so impressive by all accounts.

I’ll accept that defensively Anderson is better than Johnson. Anderson is good at driving the ball forward but he lacks any kind of threat, which kind of makes his runs a bit powder puff and generally unproductive.

Speaking to United supporting mates, Anderson has been poor this year, and they don’t think he is good enough. Interesting that you have a completely different take on him.

Perhaps his previous Spurs career makes you have an instant dislike to Carrick. He did fook all wrong against Spain. He has been one of, if not the most consistant and best English midfielder of the past year. He's by far the best holding midfielder the country has anyway.

The Spurs issue is irrelevant. I rate Berbatov highly. Please explain why I rate Berbatov but I don't rate Carrick.

He did nothing wrong against Spain? Are you kidding me? His passing was garbage, he went hiding, was made to look slow and immobile by the Spanish midfield, and he offered the defence little protection. Barry carried the midfield that night. He had to do the work of two as Carrick has the heart of a mouse.

He was criticised before joining United for not scoring goals, he's added goals at United. He was criticised for his price tag. He has more than proved his worth, been instrumental in two League titles and a European Cup victory.

How many people are instrumental in United winning the Champs League? I have already seen about 7 names listed in this thread. I would say a far more likely reason (than Carrick) for United winning the CL was because all the of big guns in Europe were in a mess – Barca, Real and Milan, in particular. Because Barca have stabilised themselves, there is no way on earth you would get past Barca in the CL this season.

Had Ronaldo not been so fantastic last season he would have been our PotY by far. Again this season, Vidic has shone above any other player, probably in the PL, but Carrick has yet again continued his fantastic form.

It’s this again. Apparently Evra was one of the players of the year, others have said Vidic, some have said Ferdinand, Rooney etc.. Do you lot just name a different player when it suits you?

Let's get this straight. Carrick is a good Prem midfielder. However, he is not international class. He won't be top class because he cannot take a grip of the game and drive a team forward. If Michael Carrick played for a team like Spurs, there league position would not be improved. However, if a top class midfielder, say Roy Keane in his day (my goodness, it hurt saying that) would improve Spurs greatly and they would probably be top 6 or 7.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:57 pm  

Enfield Exile wrote:

:lol: Anderson a good passer of the ball? You are kidding me. Virtually everytime I see him play his passing is best described as 'hit and miss'.

He plays some fantastic through balls, and his long range passing is quite good as well. Not as good as Carrick's but still very good.

Enfield Exile wrote:

I would say that Johnson is superior at running with the ball (after all he has an end product), better in front of goal and his movement is top class.

I won't argue with that.

Enfield Exile wrote:

I’ll accept that defensively Anderson is better than Johnson. Anderson is good at driving the ball forward but he lacks any kind of threat, which kind of makes his runs a bit powder puff and generally unproductive.

I honestly think Anderson's runs, especially from defence are quality, and are very good in setting up counter attacks. I would like to see him improve the use of his right foot a bit more, and sometimes his decision making lets him down, but he's still young he has time to learn. It's interesting that he is selected for Brazil regularly.

Enfield Exile wrote:

Speaking to United supporting mates, Anderson has been poor this year, and they don’t think he is good enough. Interesting that you have a completely different take on him.

He didn't play at the start of the season as he was involved in the Olympics. Fletcher played superbly during his absence and it wouldn't have been fair to drop him when Anderson returned. When he has played, IMO he has done a decent job, until he picked up his injury.

Are your mates by any chance the same people who slate O'Shea and Fletcher week in, week out?

Enfield Exile wrote:

The Spurs issue is irrelevant. I rate Berbatov highly. Please explain why I rate Berbatov but I don't rate Carrick.

Because Berbatov is a world class talent. Anyone who doesn't rate him needs their head checking.

Enfield Exile wrote:

He did nothing wrong against Spain? Are you kidding me? His passing was garbage, he went hiding, was made to look slow and immobile by the Spanish midfield, and he offered the defence little protection. Barry carried the midfield that night. He had to do the work of two as Carrick has the heart of a mouse.

He had a fairly decent game. After only two days of training together it's difficult to get your passing range to suit the players around you. But I still didn't think he did anything wrong.

I didn't really think anyone except Wright-Phillips had a good game. His tracking back to cover the left back in the second half was fantastic, and when he was on the ball England looked like they could cause a threat.

Enfield Exile wrote:

I would say a far more likely reason (than Carrick) for United winning the CL was because all the of big guns in Europe were in a mess – Barca, Real and Milan, in particular. Because Barca have stabilised themselves, there is no way on earth you would get past Barca in the CL this season.

Our defence kept Barcelona at bay for 180 minutes. They couldn't break us down. That is also down to the midfield in front of them. Of course it's going to be very hard to win the CL this season, getting past Inter is going to be hard enough, but we certainly have the team to shut out sides as well as score goals.

I don't think it's right at all that we only won the CL because other sides were $hite though.

Enfield Exile wrote:

It’s this again. Apparently Evra was one of the players of the year, others have said Vidic, some have said Ferdinand, Rooney etc.. Do you lot just name a different player when it suits you?

Vidic has been without doubt the best player this season. Apart from VDS he is the only player to have played every minute of our clean sheet record. You'll probably find that just about anyone who has seen United this season will say that Vidic has been the best player.

Enfield Exile wrote:

Let's get this straight. Carrick is a good Prem midfielder. However, he is not international class. He won't be top class because he cannot take a grip of the game and drive a team forward.

I'm quite happy with what he offers United.

Enfield Exile wrote:

If Michael Carrick played for a team like Spurs, there league position would not be improved. However, if a top class midfielder, say Roy Keane in his day (my goodness, it hurt saying that) would improve Spurs greatly and they would probably be top 6 or 7.

Roy Keane would have improved any side in England and probably Europe. There is no way on Earth that Keane and Carrick can be compared.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:38 pm  

Enfield Exile wrote:

Indeed, he's poor. He has about £100m left.

Got any of it freed up yet? As Wardle had to keep bailing city out when Dr Death was in charge.

2 league titles and a european cup in 2 seasons since Carrick joined Utd. Still think Huddlestone is a better player?

I see the cricket has been abandoned moments after an 'MCFC Chester Branch' flag was shown in the crowd. You lot can even curse a test match.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:06 pm  

Karlos13 wrote:

Got any of it freed up yet? As Wardle had to keep bailing city out when Dr Death was in charge.

You're obsessed, mate.

It could be argued that Frank saved City. Without him, Sheikh Mansoor may never have come along with his £trillion plus fortune.

2 league titles and a european cup in 2 seasons since Carrick joined Utd. Still think Huddlestone is a better player?

That was a WUM, mate. I have never rated Huddlestone. Jaap Staam was more mobile. I also know a few things about Huddlestone which I wish I didn't know. He's a grade A...

I see the cricket has been abandoned moments after an 'MCFC Chester Branch' flag was shown in the crowd. You lot can even curse a test match.

May save England from another hammering.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:09 pm  

Nemanja wrote:

It's interesting that he is selected for Brazil regularly.

As a sub

Are your mates by any chance the same people who slate O'Shea and Fletcher week in, week out?

Not a chance. People I would regard as mates or friends would not be the kind who would boo, or have a pop at their own players.

Incidentally, I think Fletcher has played very well this season.

He had a fairly decent game. After only two days of training together it's difficult to get your passing range to suit the players around you. But I still didn't think he did anything wrong.

We’ll have to agree to disagree, fella re his performance. It does take time to establish how team mates like to receive the ball and how they they make space, however, Carrick’s passing was abject. Maybe it’s easier for him at United because he has better players around him.

I didn't really think anyone except Wright-Phillips had a good game. His tracking back to cover the left back in the second half was fantastic, and when he was on the ball England looked like they could cause a threat.

Barry did well, I thought. The Spanish midfield was very fluid, with excellent movement. He had to deal with an awful lot and did as good a job as any other midfielder in England could have done.

Our defence kept Barcelona at bay for 180 minutes. They couldn't break us down. That is also down to the midfield in front of them. Of course it's going to be very hard to win the CL this season, getting past Inter is going to be hard enough, but we certainly have the team to shut out sides as well as score goals.

I think Barca are different gravy this season. They looked stale at times last year. However, their midfield has been imperious this season and Messi has been superb.

I don't think it's right at all that we only won the CL because other sides were $hite though.

Not ‘only’. But IMO it was a big factor. Some people would think I was being disingenuine with my comments.

Vidic has been without doubt the best player this season. Apart from VDS he is the only player to have played every minute of our clean sheet record. You'll probably find that just about anyone who has seen United this season will say that Vidic has been the best player.

I personally think Ferdinand has been better from what I have seen but he has had injury problems. Vidic will always be popular with me after he stated that his favourite ground was CoM.

I'm quite happy with what he offers United.

That’s fair enough, mate.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:10 pm  

Enfield Exile wrote:

You're obsessed, mate.

It could be argued that Frank saved City. Without him, Sheikh Mansoor may never have come along with his £trillion plus fortune.

Clutching at straws there slightly.

Enfield Exile wrote:

That was a WUM, mate.

That old chestnut.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:20 pm  

ash4hullfc wrote:

But he doesn't! He's finished. He has a bit of pedigree, simply because he used to play for Man Utd. As for ability, I'll give you that one. He has the uncanny ability of giving the ball away to the opposition in crucial areas of the pitch. Apart from that, no ability whatsoever.

A few years ago he wasn't too bad but that was then, this is now.

As for pretty much saying Guthrie has no ability, what exactly do you judge that on? Crazy comment.


You think Nicky Butt is better than Danny Guthrie, that tells me all I need to know about you.


Please point out where I claimed that. As with any fan of any team, I'd expect you to know more about your team than a fan of another team.


I actually think that Johnson is a good player, hence why I would have been pleased if he signed for Newcastle.

As for comparing the two, Johnson is a 'safe' player, he will do the simple things right and does them well too. When he gets forward, he can look dangerous at times but he doesn't really cause defences too many problems, whether that is creating goals or playing a killer pass. Anderson is more combative; very tidy in the middle of the pitch. Brilliant with the ball at his feet and looks a far bigger threat when going forward. Although Johnson can fire in a goal, I still believe Anderson offers more in attack. His work-rate is superb. They both protect the back four well but I rate Anderson the better of the two, mainly due to his engine allowing him to quickly break away and turn defence into attack.


Earlier on in his career, I'd have agreed. However, he's come on a lot and deserves his place in the side. His most recent performance in an England shirt (before the Spain game) was against Germany. He was the best player on the park and controlled things brilliantly in what was a very understrength England side.


They aren't the measure of quality, but they do give an indication. More often than not, you don't pick up International caps if you're not good enough to be in there.

For what it's worth, I rate Sturridge higher than Campbell.


I think you're making Johnson out to be better than he is here. Yes, he had a decent season last year but that hardly merits the question of naming a midfielder better than him at 19 when quite frankly, there is a lack of them in this country.

As I've said, I rate Johnson and believe he's a good player, just not to the same level you're making him out to be.


He hasn't just been decent though, he's been a key player for them this season and has stood out. He's more than deserved his place in the England side.

Look, fella. I cannot have a debate with you re Johnson as I don't think you know what his strengths and weaknesses are. It will go nowhere.

I have to admit, I don't rate Guthrie. He can't tackle, he cannot pass and he cannot stamp his mark on a game at the top level. No offence, but he's like an inferior version of Mike Marsh.

I'm not a big fan of Nicky Butt (he's got a City tattoo, yer know?) and he has looked a tad 'loose' when I have seen him play this season. However, when I have seen Newcatle produce some quality this season, he has often been involved. I don't think he is helped by the rest of the team either. As a neutral, I would pick him ahead of Geremi and Guthrie. If you didn't have Butt against the mnore physical teams (e.g. Stoke), do you not think you would be severely weakened?

RE Carrick: I wouldn't disagree that he was very good against Germany. However, it was for a dominant England against a poor Germany. An international quality player cannot simply perform once in a while.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:22 pm  

Karlos13 wrote:

Clutching at straws there slightly.

RE what, mate? Surely not about Frank 'saving us'.


That old chestnut.

You can ask the missus when I am up north next

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:22 pm  

Enfield Exile wrote:

Not a chance. People I would regard as mates or friends would not be the kind who would boo, or have a pop at their own players.

Incidentally, I think Fletcher has played very well this season.

Indeed he has. He's had a great season.

Enfield Exile wrote:

We’ll have to agree to disagree, fella re his performance. It does take time to establish how team mates like to receive the ball and how they they make space, however, Carrick’s passing was abject. Maybe it’s easier for him at United because he has better players around him.

That's probably it. It's easier to pass the ball to Ronaldo and Berbatov than to Downing and Agbonlahor.

Enfield Exile wrote:

Barry did well, I thought. The Spanish midfield was very fluid, with excellent movement. He had to deal with an awful lot and did as good a job as any other midfielder in England could have done.

The Spanish midfield was fantastic. Xavi was absolutely brilliant IMO.

Enfield Exile wrote:

I think Barca are different gravy this season. They looked stale at times last year. However, their midfield has been imperious this season and Messi has been superb.

Yep, I'd definitely agree that they are much better this season. They are definitely favourites IMO to win the CL.

Enfield Exile wrote:

I personally think Ferdinand has been better from what I have seen but he has had injury problems. Vidic will always be popular with me after he stated that his favourite ground was CoM.

Ferdinand started the season really well. His injury problems are an area of concern, but whilst he's been away Vidic has carried the defence, he's been an absolute rock.

Luckily, Evans is a quality centre back and he has been able to cover for Ferdinand and Vidic earlier in the season very well. Although I'd rather have Vidic in the side versus Inter, I have every confidence in Evans to step up and cover.