Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:37 pm  

Smiggs wrote:

oh the irony.

get a grip. Tool.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:39 pm  

Dan_FC wrote:

:roll: get a grip. Tool.

Don't get above your station fella.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:43 pm  

This Downing hype is very similar to when we signed Jermaine Pennant. When we signed him, the majority knew he was average, yet some defended him with things like "He crossed the ball more times than anybody in the league", yet he was average for us. Everybody wanted Dani Alves over Pennant, Sevilla upped their price slightly and we couldn't afford it as we wanted Dirk Kuyt as well as a right sider, and if we got Alves we wouldn't have got Kuyt.

Another thing, people listing off Downing's stats are like those who listed Barry's in comparison to Alonso's. Statistics aren't everything, heck, even playing in the same league isn't everything. Downing isn't a poor player, not by any stretch of the imagination, but, likewise, he isn't a £20m player and he isn't good enough for most of the top sides in Europe, something I feel we should be targeting in due course.

Lastly, the biggest problem I have with this transfer, and most of our transfers of late, isn't just the player, it's our determination to overpay for players who aren't actually worth what we pay. It isn't a great business model to build around. I thought we were going into the market to be clever, to try and outwit our opponents, but we've entered it with a careless attitude. You shouldn't overpay for any player, you should be good enough to find other options and have back up plans, it seems once we decide, we don't backtrack. We've now gone out and spent close to £70m on Carroll, Downing and Henderson, possibly more than £70m according to some, whilst I personally believe that money could have been used strengthening other areas of the squad. I feel we're a left back, two centre backs and a right winger lite. Furthermore, the money we've spent on Downing probably won't be recuperated in a future sale. It's not like when we signed Crouch for a small-ish fee, Downing's in his peak, we've overpaid and his value will only drop now, unless Real Madrid suddenly deem him di Maria's superior (probably is now he's signed for us).

Still, for the record, I am underwhelmed by our signings. As I said, it's like watching Sparky at Citeh, overpaying for homegrown talent because of some mythical belief that it adds an instant injection. I am sure the endless amounts of players that prove that there is no rule in how long a player takes to adapt will laugh at that defence.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:48 pm  

Dan_FC wrote:

I take the point but fans view can often be distorted though, it was probably obvious to them Young was going to leave. They could've easily taken a dislike to him for that, who knows. As I said I haven't picked one over the other who had the better season, personally I don't know. I don't think one was that much better than the other. I still think Downing is very average and Villa must be delighted with the fee they've received.

Maybe. Or it could of been viewed by him being better rather than them disliking Young, who knows?

To conclude, how about we agree on that he's not worth 20 million pounds? Deal?

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:56 pm  

We (Liverpool) rated Young over Downing. We tried all January to get Young, Villa refused to budge (probably agreed a Whelan-esque deal with United) so we left it until the summer, but United got him over us, so we ended up going for Downing.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:04 pm  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

To conclude, how about we agree on that he's not worth 20 million pounds? Deal?

Sounds good, I'll go with that! Anyway, it won't be long until the season starts over again and we can see what all these new signings for every team (Everton aside, obviously!) have to offer

Roddy B wrote:

We (Liverpool) rated Young over Downing. We tried all January to get Young, Villa refused to budge (probably agreed a Whelan-esque deal with United) so we left it until the summer, but United got him over us, so we ended up going for Downing.

Smiggs wrote:

Don't get above your station fella.

I never do but being a Liverpool fan from Hull I'm sure you know all about Everton fans eh! It's the second in a week you've had a go about Evertonians and yet you probably pick it all up off a Liverpool forum too, pathetic.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:11 pm  

Dan_FC wrote:

Sounds good, I'll go with that! Anyway, it won't be long until the season starts over again and we can see what all these new signings for every team (Everton aside, obviously!) have to offer



I never do but being a Liverpool fan from Hull I'm sure you know all about Everton fans eh! It's the second in a week you've had a go about Evertonians and yet you probably pick it all up off a Liverpool forum too, pathetic.

Who's had a go at Evertonians? I've had a pop at you, the individual who apparently couldn't give a toss about Liverpool yet spends all his time talking about them and their signings. And where I come from is irrelevant.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:53 pm  

Smiggs wrote:

Who's had a go at Evertonians?

You did, twice:

Smiggs wrote:

The clamour on here to rubbish any signing that Liverpool make or any player they're linked with is embarrassing (especially from Everton supporters).

Smiggs wrote:

oh the irony.

Smiggs wrote:

I've had a pop at you, the individual who apparently couldn't give a toss about Liverpool yet spends all his time talking about them and their signings. And where I come from is irrelevant.

On the same theme who I support is irrelevant. I don't see why you've got such a problem with me being an Evertonian and commenting on Liverpool. I don't care about Liverpool or any other club, apart from my own, but if that's what is being discussed I don't see why I shouldn't get involved because of who I support.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:04 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

Lastly, the biggest problem I have with this transfer, and most of our transfers of late, isn't just the player, it's our determination to overpay for players who aren't actually worth what we pay. It isn't a great business model to build around. I thought we were going into the market to be clever, to try and outwit our opponents, but we've entered it with a careless attitude. You shouldn't overpay for any player, you should be good enough to find other options and have back up plans, it seems once we decide, we don't backtrack. We've now gone out and spent close to £70m on Carroll, Downing and Henderson, possibly more than £70m according to some, whilst I personally believe that money could have been used strengthening other areas of the squad. I feel we're a left back, two centre backs and a right winger lite. Furthermore, the money we've spent on Downing probably won't be recuperated in a future sale. It's not like when we signed Crouch for a small-ish fee, Downing's in his peak, we've overpaid and his value will only drop now, unless Real Madrid suddenly deem him di Maria's superior (probably is now he's signed for us).

Tut tut. Bit of revisionism there pal, expect better from you!

Wickham and Marveaux ring a bell?

The money doesn't have to be recuperated from a future sale. If Downing helps Liverpool to get in the Champions league twice in the next 5 seasons his fee will have been recuperated. Would Man U get their £18m back if they sold Michael Carrick tomorrow, or would they think the success they have had as a team during his spell has balanced the fee, which many thought was too much. If Man U spend £35m on Sneijder and replaced Carrick (as an example), would that money be recuperated in a future sale or would Man U deem it a price worth paying if they went on to win the League twice in the next 4 seasons?

Roddy B wrote:

We (Liverpool) rated Young over Downing. We tried all January to get Young, Villa refused to budge (probably agreed a Whelan-esque deal with United) so we left it until the summer, but United got him over us, so we ended up going for Downing.

I'll think you'll find Dalglish has wanted and tried to sign Downing in January. Did it ever cross your mind he wanted both?

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:09 pm  

keithcun wrote:

If Downing helps Liverpool to get in the Champions league twice in the next 5 seasons his fee will have been recuperated.

Nonsense, not as if he's the only addition to the squad.

If Liverpool had the same squad as last season (excluding any departures), with the only arrival being Downing, and they made the CL then you could say he helped them make it there - combined with the continued improvement Dalglish has got from the current squad. But, even if they do get there twice in five years, surely this money potentially earned will be used to gloss over the fact they have also overpaid for Carroll and Henderson.