Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:52 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

I love it when people take a comment and go off on one with it. Not a bad record I know but how many Superbowls has he scooped in those seasons? Do you have evidence of these other coaches admitting to video taping? I can't say I've read a story which contains these claims.

Parcells & Martz both said on Total Access at the time they'd done it, and wasn't Martz at the Rams in 01? Mangini did it (granted he came from NE, in turn Bellichick came from the Parcells tree...)

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:30 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

Parcells & Martz both said on Total Access at the time they'd done it, and wasn't Martz at the Rams in 01? Mangini did it (granted he came from NE, in turn Bellichick came from the Parcells tree...)

Did they? Can you find this video? I still have yet to see this evidence. Wouldn't surprise me if Parcells had. I don't doubt that you are telling the truth I just have yet to see anything to prove this with my own eyes.

Still doesn't change the fact that the Patriots haven't won a Superbowl since getting rumbled.

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:52 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

Since he got caught doing something other coaches admitted doing themselves not knowing it was illegal: 16-0, 11-5 (with Matt Cassel) and 10-6, yep terrible sack him now I say!

Unfortunately you are the only proven CHEATS. You must admit it is conspicuous that you record teams signals and win multiple titles. Get caught and after than you win nothing!

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:18 pm  

Like Belichick, who refused to admit he did anything wrong, Patriots fans will always try to justify the cheating until the cows come home.

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:25 pm  

You do all know the actual taping wasn't illegal, the illegal thing was the location of the video cameras, right? 2 totally different things

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:42 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

You do all know the actual taping wasn't illegal, the illegal thing was the location of the video cameras, right? 2 totally different things

A fine for "the use of equipment to videotape an opposing team’s offensive or defensive signals" pretty much sounds like the actual taping was illegal to me...

A $500,000 fine for Belichick, $250,000 team fine and stripping of a 1st round pick also speaks volumes as to how serious an offence it was deemed.

We'll never know the full extent of the Patriots' cheating but a cloud will always hang over their Superbowl wins.

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:52 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

You do all know the actual taping wasn't illegal, the illegal thing was the location of the video cameras, right? 2 totally different things

Whatever spin you want to put on it you did something illegal and were caught. It gave you a competitive advantage and is blatant cheating. You are proven cheats. It may not be illegal to tape the games etc but you taped to such a level that you had much more detailed hand signals, formations etc.

If the NFL had the backbone to stand up to the "big teams(or more likely owners)" then you'd have much more than the ridiculous low fines you got and should have been excluded from the play-offs for a number of years.

Oh and wasn't a memo sent out in 2006 to state that you couldn't tape offensive and defensive signals this was PRIOR to you being caught against the Jets?

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:16 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

If the NFL had the backbone to stand up to the "big teams(or more likely owners)" then you'd have much more than the ridiculous low fines you got and should have been excluded from the play-offs for a number of years.

Which is why apart from you, and cry baby Faulk, everyone else thinks the fines (and loss of a draft pick) were harsh?

Not to mention, the tapes were what, 7? games, 3 of which were losses so it gave such a massive advantage. Not to mention, they were used in the same game, meaning the same thing could technically be done by a bloke with a notepad and good eyesight (probably is actually).

It was pretty much a non-issue ESPN turned into a big hoo-ha when it was all over nothing games that meant nothing, there was no Rams walkthru, but the Rams WERE stupid enough to let a bloke in a Patriots track suit stand their and watch it, which is nobodies fault but St Louis.

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:48 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

Which is why apart from you, and cry baby Faulk, everyone else thinks the fines (and loss of a draft pick) were harsh?

Yeah a $750,000 fine (since the Patriots pay Bellicheats wages) is a massive dent in the pocket of an owner with an estimated wealth of $1.5 BILLION. As for the draft pick. Losing 1 draft pick is nothing when you can trade up still and your pick is usually in 25-32 range.

In comparison McLaren were fined $100 million and excluded from getting championship points in 2007 for that spy scandal.

Equally quite recently Tom Lewand, Lions president, was suspended for a month and fined $100,000 for driving while impaired. I'm not saying that isn't serious but he was suspended for an incident entirely seperate from football yet you cheated and nothing?

If anything the NFL was easy on you. For cheating you got $750,000 and 1 draft pick. Like i said you could have been excluded from the play-offs for a number of years, excluded from the draft completely, suspend Bellichick or fined far far more heavily. To say it was harsh is ridiculous.

Gaslight wrote:

Not to mention, the tapes were what, 7? games, 3 of which were losses so it gave such a massive advantage. Not to mention, they were used in the same game, meaning the same thing could technically be done by a bloke with a notepad and good eyesight (probably is actually).

I thought Bellichicks argument was that he thought he was within the rules provided the tapes WERE NOT used in the same game? It gives you an advantage because you get a better understanding of signals and there will be a certain continuity which extends to teams who run the same systems or come from the same coaching background.

Gaslight wrote:

It was pretty much a non-issue ESPN turned into a big hoo-ha when it was all over nothing games that meant nothing, there was no Rams walkthru, but the Rams WERE stupid enough to let a bloke in a Patriots track suit stand their and watch it, which is nobodies fault but St Louis.

I think it is a pretty big issue that irrelevant of the meaningfulness of the game you breached clear NFL rules bringing the integrity of the game and honesty into question.

Re: NFL Chat 4 : Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:55 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

Yeah a $750,000 fine (since the Patriots pay Bellicheats wages) is a massive dent in the pocket of an owner with an estimated wealth of $1.5 BILLION. As for the draft pick. Losing 1 draft pick is nothing when you can trade up still and your pick is usually in 25-32 range.

That draft pick taken off the Patriots could have got DeSean Jackson or Ray Rice, pretty big penalty if you ask me. Or it could have been traded into 09 to get someone at the bottom of the first round in that draft, that 1 pick cost the team 1 stud player - if the Pats had Rice or Jackson who would be able to stop them?

And what's Krafts money got to do with it? he doesn't put EVERY bit of money he owns into the club, and the Patriots are run off money they make from tickets/Patriot place etc, they make that much money if revenue sharing was stopped only the Cowboys could match the spending the Patriots could do. The fine was set, and that's what it will always be, that one pick lost could have stopped the team getting a hall of famer, who knows.