Re: Even More Football Chat : Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:45 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

That's a gem, even for you. In order to win the title, Rafa would need some pretty serious investment, we're talking over £100m in the transfer kitty without player sales, that's the kind of investment needed for us to make the big step, at least that was the kind of step up needed last summer, now it's probably more, he hasn't been given that. Our fans will always expect the title to be won, but I don't think the board have ever expected him to win the league.

Or
Rafa would need to spend his £ms on quality players rather than guff that would struggle to make the bench at a real top club

Re: Even More Football Chat : Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:51 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

It's not that simple and you know it's not. Liverpool back the manager with money to spend. He's spent way more per season than Manchester United have. Everton only have a fraction of that so our mediocrity is inevitable. Liverpool are supposidly one of the greatest football clubs in the world and have a great history and have bankrolled themselves into massive debts searching for that elusive title. Despite the history and the backing Benitez has failed miserably in their quest for the league title.

Benitez's squad development and his eye for a signing are simply not good enough for a manager of an elite club.

Benitez has been up against Ferguson, who has been at United for 25 years and had absolute fortunes to spend. He's been up against Wenger, who has been at Arsenal for 15 years and given the time and opportunity to mould Arsenal into exactly what he wants. He's been up against Mourinho, who has had a couple of hundred million to win the title.

When up against those three, the money that Benitez has had has not been anywhere close to being enough to take the title.

All four of the managers have bought utterly fantastic players. All four of them have bought players that turned out to be utter failures.

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:28 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Benitez has been up against Ferguson, who has been at United for 25 years and had absolute fortunes to spend. He's been up against Wenger, who has been at Arsenal for 15 years and given the time and opportunity to mould Arsenal into exactly what he wants. He's been up against Mourinho, who has had a couple of hundred million to win the title.

When up against those three, the money that Benitez has had has not been anywhere close to being enough to take the title.

All four of the managers have bought utterly fantastic players. All four of them have bought players that turned out to be utter failures.

Benitez's signings are hardly 'fantastic'. Torres and Reina (If he signed him, I can't remember) fine, but the rest of them?

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:53 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Benitez's signings are hardly 'fantastic'. Torres and Reina (If he signed him, I can't remember) fine, but the rest of them?

Honestly, you defy belief. Just the other day you were heralding Leighton Baines as part of the best left side in the league, yet you can only claim two players signed by Benitez as 'fantastic'.

IMO, these have been the best of Benitez's signings:

Reina
Torres
Alonso
Mascherano
Agger
Skrtel
Aurelio
Sissoko
Arbeloa
Benayoun
Crouch
Luis Garcia

Maybe I've forgot one or two, maybe some of you will disagree but I have no doubts than any of those above who are still here would bring a profit, whilst the ones already gone brought in a profit except for maybe Luis Garcia.

Also, if you rate Baines so highly then you can throw Glen Johnson in there, he's not had much chance to prove himself as a great signing yet but there's no doubting he's a top player, even with the hapless Dirk Kuyt in front of him.

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:57 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

That's a gem, even for you. In order to win the title, Rafa would need some pretty serious investment, we're talking over £100m in the transfer kitty without player sales, that's the kind of investment needed for us to make the big step, at least that was the kind of step up needed last summer, now it's probably more, he hasn't been given that. Our fans will always expect the title to be won, but I don't think the board have ever expected him to win the league.

Not really. Liverpool have spent more money per season since the inception of the Premier League than Man United have and considerably more during the time Benitez has been manager of Liverpool. Johnson, Insua, El Zhar, Ngog, Lucas, Voronin, Reira, Arbeloa, Degen, Krgyiakos, Babel, Josemi, Nunez, Pellegrino, Morientes, Gonzales, Bellamy, Kuyt, Kronkamp, Skrtel, Aurelio, Pennant, Dossena, Sissoko, Leto, Zenden, Palletta, Carson, Cavilieri, Keane, Aquilani.

That is a quarter of a billion pounds worth of footballing talent. None of that poop did much for Liverpool. Keane is a reasonable player, now in the English D5 (SPL), but what about the rest of them? Take that £200m+ and replace it with 6 or 7 top quality players instead.

Another thing Benitez should be criticised for is his lack of ability/willingness to bring players through the system. Since Gerrard, who have they brought through? Where are his Jack Rodwell's, Wayne Rooney's, Aaron Ramsey's? Where is the next Stevie G? Or the next Robbie Fowler? I went to watch Liverpool's reserves a few years back and saw a random collection of Argentinian, Spanish and French kids destroy Everton. The likes of Rodwell, Gosling, Anichebe, Coleman and Duffy are now involved in the first team for Everton. I don't think any of the Liverpool players have made it through.

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:00 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Honestly, you defy belief. Just the other day you were heralding Leighton Baines as part of the best left side in the league, yet you can only claim two players signed by Benitez as 'fantastic'.

Yeah, I do. Be honest, how many of those players (The ones still at Liverpool) you listed would make it into the Man United or Chelsea team? My comments on Baines are based solely on how he's playing, there isn't anyone in the Premier League at left back playing as well as he is right now. He's not as good as Ashley Cole and there are others better than him like Evra, but he's playing out of his skin at the moment.

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:26 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Not really. Liverpool have spent more money per season since the inception of the Premier League than Man United have and considerably more during the time Benitez has been manager of Liverpool. Johnson, Insua, El Zhar, Ngog, Lucas, Voronin, Reira, Arbeloa, Degen, Krgyiakos, Babel, Josemi, Nunez, Pellegrino, Morientes, Gonzales, Bellamy, Kuyt, Kronkamp, Skrtel, Aurelio, Pennant, Dossena, Sissoko, Leto, Zenden, Palletta, Carson, Cavilieri, Keane, Aquilani.

That is a quarter of a billion pounds worth of footballing talent. None of that poop did much for Liverpool. Keane is a reasonable player, now in the English D5 (SPL), but what about the rest of them? Take that £200m+ and replace it with 6 or 7 top quality players instead.

Another thing Benitez should be criticised for is his lack of ability/willingness to bring players through the system. Since Gerrard, who have they brought through? Where are his Jack Rodwell's, Wayne Rooney's, Aaron Ramsey's? Where is the next Stevie G? Or the next Robbie Fowler? I went to watch Liverpool's reserves a few years back and saw a random collection of Argentinian, Spanish and French kids destroy Everton. The likes of Rodwell, Gosling, Anichebe, Coleman and Duffy are now involved in the first team for Everton. I don't think any of the Liverpool players have made it through.

Johnson and Aquilani? Aquilani so far has been a poor signing, but he hasn't even had the chance to prove himself. Who's to say that, when he's fit and firing, he isn't a better player than Carrick or Fletcher? I think Mascherano would start at United, but I'm sure the Mancs will disagree in their legions. I honestly don't know how Skrtel, Aurelio and Sissoko are in your list, maybe you haven't seen them play, maybe you just play too much FM, I don't know, but they are/were fantastic servants to the club.

As I have already said, he has signed many poor players in his time here, but your lack of thought/balance in your argument is, to be honest, staggering.

As for the whole next Gerrard thing, you actually have to have the talented players coming through in order to have them. Everton have been fortunate enough to have the likes of Rooney and Rodwell over recent years, just like we were fortunate to have Fowler, Owen, Carra and Gerrard over 10 years ago. It's not Rafa's fault that a set of coaches out of his control weren't producing players of the requisite standard, he can't just expect someone to have Rooney like ability, otherwise we'd be swanning around with a team full of homegrown superstars. You also have to look at the difference in expectations between Everton and Liverpool. Everton can bring in players like Rodwell, Baxter and the like, because little is expected of them. Rafa could do more with them in the cup, but he won't win trophies/challenge for trophies playing the reserves. I actually feel he could do a lot more with youngsters, but just expecting a Gerrard to pop up from nowhere is very strange

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:39 am  

lollerpool

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:48 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Yeah but what does that matter?:

Rooney > Defoe > Crouch > Zamora > C Cole > Heskey

Are you suggesting that England take only three strikers to the world cup?

Re: Even More Football Chat : Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:01 am  

Danny 2 wrote:

can you really see us winning after tonights performance

Yes quite easily