: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:02 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Problem with diving is, like has been pointed out before by LGJM, when players dive to avoid contact. I can condone it on occasions, like Rooney did with Almunia against Arsenal, he went down early but his going down was totally justified as contact did come and it was obvious something worse would have happened had he kept on running. N'Gog's tonight, I'm not sure, I need to see the replay again and decide.

Why do you need to look at it again, it's a clear dive. Carsely comes in Ngog sees him and dives for a penatly. The simple fact is he isn't jumping out of the way of a tackle or out of the way of Carsley he is simply cheating by diving to gain a penalty.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

TBH I'm a bit ambivalent over this penalty decision. The Birmingham player deserved to give away the pen. He made a crappy challenge for the ball in an area where he knew he'd give away a pen if he screwed up. It was only Ngog's stupid dive that saved him from giving away a genuine pen. If Ngog had carried on with his run rather than throwing himself to the ground he'd have been clipped anyway.

But he didn't, he saw Carsley coming and he dived to win a penalty when he was never touched. It's dangerous backing this kind of behaviour now because players will do it all the time and will dive to 'avoid' a tackled and a penalty will be given. It was a joke of decision and Ngog should have been booked for diving. There's no way on this earth that it should have been given.

RedTez wrote:

Alots been made of the dive by Ngog, but if he didn't jump out of the way he'd have been clattered by Carsley. That was one dreadful tackle and deserved to give away a penalty. In hindsight, Ngog should've took the challenge, but doing so coud've ended in serious injury.

A penalty was the correct decision - it was the only decision!

Deary me, clueless. You quoting direct from the Fergie handbook of Football there?

Why did he not jump out the way of Carsley's tackle? why did he have to go over like a diving olympian? the fact is he didn't jump out the way to avoid Carsley's tackle he dived to cheat to win a penalty because he saw the tackle coming. As I said to LGJM it's dangerous to back this kind of cheating because it will happen all the time.

No one was questioning it when Eduardo went down against Celtic, he was hammered for it. At least he got close to the keeper on that occasion, Ngog was nowhere near Carsley. All of sudden SSN are quoting people from the past saying 'If a leg is dangling out a player is entitled to go over it' well no one said Eduardo was entitled to go over the 'keepers arm and the main problem with that quote is you need to be near the player to go over the leg. Ngog was cheating simple as.

Even Benitez admitted it wasn't a penalty, I think that should tell you it wasn't a penalty

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:03 pm  

RedTez wrote:

Alots been made of the dive by Ngog, but if he didn't jump out of the way he'd have been clattered by Carsley. That was one dreadful tackle and deserved to give away a penalty. In hindsight, Ngog should've took the challenge, but doing so coud've ended in serious injury.

A penalty was the correct decision - it was the only decision!

Nope. Incorrect.

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:26 pm  

Dan_FC wrote:

Why do you need to look at it again, it's a clear dive. Carsely comes in Ngog sees him and dives for a penatly. The simple fact is he isn't jumping out of the way of a tackle or out of the way of Carsley he is simply cheating by diving to gain a penalty.



But he didn't, he saw Carsley coming and he dived to win a penalty when he was never touched. It's dangerous backing this kind of behaviour now because players will do it all the time and will dive to 'avoid' a tackled and a penalty will be given. It was a joke of decision and Ngog should have been booked for diving. There's no way on this earth that it should have been given.



Deary me, clueless. You quoting direct from the Fergie handbook of Football there?

Why did he not jump out the way of Carsley's tackle? why did he have to go over like a diving olympian? the fact is he didn't jump out the way to avoid Carsley's tackle he dived to cheat to win a penalty because he saw the tackle coming. As I said to LGJM it's dangerous to back this kind of cheating because it will happen all the time.

No one was questioning it when Eduardo went down against Celtic, he was hammered for it. At least he got close to the keeper on that occasion, Ngog was nowhere near Carsley. All of sudden SSN are quoting people from the past saying 'If a leg is dangling out a player is entitled to go over it' well no one said Eduardo was entitled to go over the 'keepers arm and the main problem with that quote is you need to be near the player to go over the leg. Ngog was cheating simple as.

Even Benitez admitted it wasn't a penalty, I think that should tell you it wasn't a penalty

I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. The tackle from Carsley was dangerous, and stupid.

- Are you saying if Ngog didn't jump over Carsley's leg - or dive - there would've been no contact?
- Are you saying that a challenge, such as that clogger Carsley's is not a danger to the opposing player?
- Was Ngog not in serious danger of injury from that challenge?

You talk about me and LGJM "backing cheating", you are in effect backing challenges that can seriously injure players. Way to go.

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:41 pm  

Enfield Exile wrote:

You are really sticking your neck on the block with that comment. Have you ever said anything interesting?

Is there any point to you being here?

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:59 pm  

RedTez wrote:

Are you saying if Ngog didn't jump over Carsley's leg - or dive - there would've been no contact?

Nope, I did not say that.

RedTez wrote:

Are you saying that a challenge, such as that clogger Carsley's is not a danger to the opposing player?

Nope, I did not say that.

RedTez wrote:

Was Ngog not in serious danger of injury from that challenge?

Possibly. That depends IMO. There is no guarantee of anything but from watching it if Ngog is caught I doubt he would have had an injury the way you are making it out but as there was no contact we will never know.

RedTez wrote:

You talk about me and LGJM "backing cheating", you are in effect backing challenges that can seriously injure players. Way to go.

Not at all, you couldn't be more wrong. I am not backing Carsley's challenge or sliding in at all. All I am stating is that just because Carsley slides in it doesn't warrant a penalty. Ngog was jumping out of the way of the tackle though, he was diving to win a penalty, to cheat and con the referee. He wasn't avoiding Carsley he saw his chance to cheat his way to a pen and took it.

Benitez admitted it wasn't a pen and also admitted Ngog didn't think it was a pen, enough for me to think it was definately a dive.

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:28 pm  

Dan_FC wrote:

Possibly. That depends IMO. There is no guarantee of anything but from watching it if Ngog is caught I doubt he would have had an injury the way you are making it out but as there was no contact we will never know.

But would there have been contact if Ngog did not dive? If the answer is yes, then I fail to see how you cannot give a penalty. Dive, jump, evasive action, whatever. Penalty.

Dan_FC wrote:

Not at all, you couldn't be more wrong. I am not backing Carsley's challenge or sliding in at all. All I am stating is that just because Carsley slides in it doesn't warrant a penalty. Ngog was jumping out of the way of the tackle though, he was diving to win a penalty, to cheat and con the referee. He wasn't avoiding Carsley he saw his chance to cheat his way to a pen and took it.

Benitez admitted it wasn't a pen and also admitted Ngog didn't think it was a pen, enough for me to think it was definately a dive.

Like I say, I couldn't care less what Benitez or Ngog say. I'm sick of seeing players with limited talent, such as Carsley, flying into challenges, putting the safety of their fellow professionals at risk. I stand by the fact that when Carsley made that challenge there was only going to be one of 2 outcomes - crunch Ngog and miss the ball, or Ngog jumps to avoid the tackle (or dive, win a penalty, whatever) and he misses both.

My view on this whole issue may be extreme because I have seen teams come to Old Trafford for years and try and kick more talented players (i.e. Ronaldo) off the park. Players of note include the aforemention Lee Carsely, Wilson Palacios, Michael Brown and Lee Cattermole. It drives me mad.

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:36 pm  

faxtastic wrote:

those people that were singing and talking through the minutes silance at stamford bridge should be banned from attending football games.

such disrespect from a minority.

It was nothing compared to Celtic fans at Falkirk over the weekend which can be viewed on a certain video hosting website.

Disgraceful.

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:40 pm  

Renegade wrote:

It was nothing compared to Celtic fans at Falkirk over the weekend which can be viewed on a certain video hosting website.

Disgraceful.

Absolutely shocking what a bunch of wanchors

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:49 pm  

RedTez wrote:

My view on this whole issue may be extreme because I have seen teams come to Old Trafford for years and try and kick more talented players (i.e. Ronaldo) off the park. Players of note include the aforemention Lee Carsely, Wilson Palacios, Michael Brown and Lee Cattermole. It drives me mad.

It's awful when cloggers like the players you mention stop you from seeing artists like Darren Fletcher play.

: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:55 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

It's awful when cloggers like the players you mention stop you from seeing artists like Darren Fletcher play.

Yes, and Claude Makeklele.