: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:11 pm  

JWP wrote:

There was a period when he looked like a god, batting at six. Get him at six I say, proper mess with the order.

Sod it, bat Jimmy at three & play an extra bowler.

I agree, I remember seeing Bell at 6 and he looked much better down the order, where I feel there's usually less pressure on him. For me he's quite weak mentally and lacks concentration, he can get himself in and he seems to struggle handling the pressure of getting in and converting that into a big score. Too often Bell gets in, then gets out playing a daft shot outside his off stump.

: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:25 pm  

Bell's Test average is over 40 (just), and there is no other candidate whose form screams they should be selected. This Australian attack is not a patch on that of 05 or 06/7, and Bell deserves another crack. He seems to have been made the scapegoat for that collapse in the Windies, which is not entirely fair, IMO.
That said, I will not be totally shocked to see him trudging off, looking skyward in despair after another single figure knock

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:12 am  

I'd go for Key. Bell seems to score easy runs against poor teams, or when other players have laid a platform. Although Pietersen hadnt scored a lot of runs, one thing he had done was to prevent potential batting collapses. I think we need someone who can shore up the batting. A batting order including Bell, Bopara & Prior looks too fragile.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:26 am  

Key would get the nod ahead of Bell for me, he has a little bit more about him, which I think you need against the aussies. Bell tended to get his runs in the second inngs of matches rather than in the first which is also an important statistic, he is a good player but seemed to have hit a really bad patch with England. Maybe the spell in CC will have done him good and restored his confidence? Maybe not.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:30 am  

Im firmly in the Rob Key camp too...he's got very similar amount of runs to Bell this season (last weeks big score was at a perfect time) and I think he has a more relaxed/less edgy and nervous attitude - he gives the impression he'd just laugh off any sledging from the Aussies and get stuck in to them too.

To be fair to Bell he has got a fair few runs this summer at a good average but the Ashes is a totally different kettle of fish...you get the impression that, like Harmison, Bell will always do the business in CC but you'll never be 100% sure he can repeat it in Test cricket.

The top 10 english run scorers in first class cricket this season are:
Strauss 1321
Cook 1178
Prior 1012
Trescothick 979
Trott 975
Collingwood 883
Bell 790
Key 761
Blackwell 746
Hildreth 728

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:55 pm  

I was quite expecting you all to bag me when I threw Rob Key out there, didn't anticipate this level of support for his inclusion. I guess it shows our lack of faith in Bell, mentally if not talent wise anyhow.

I can't be bothered, but can anybody find Bell's average vs Australia on the respective series, ie, what he averaged in 2005 against 2006/07. I know it was in Australia, but just as a comparison really. There sometimes to be, in my office, a trail of thought that he exercised those demons on the next tour, I'm not convinced.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:34 pm  

Im sad/don't have any work to do so here you go...

5 matches v Australia at home - average 17.10 2x50 (both in same match at Old Trafford)
5 matches v Australia away - average 33.10 4x50 (in 4 of the 5 games)

So on the one hand maybe he started to exercise some of those demons as he was getting decent runs on a more consistent basis, but on the other hand it's easier to score runs in Australia and he never went on from scoring 50's to get the big scores he should have done.

I'd still go for Fatty Key anyway!!

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:35 pm  

Ian Bell v Australia. Averages 25.1 overall, 17.1 in England and 33.1 down under. Inspirational stuff.

Ian Bell v Australia. Averages 25.1 overall, 17.1 in England and 33.1 down under. Inspirational stuff.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:42 pm  

Asim wrote: Ian Bell v Australia. Averages 25.1 overall, 17.1 in England and 33.1 down under. Inspirational stuff. Rob Key's average against Australia is 17.

Asim wrote: Ian Bell v Australia. Averages 25.1 overall, 17.1 in England and 33.1 down under. Inspirational stuff. Rob Key's average against Australia is 17.

: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:06 pm  

worthing wire wrote:

Rob Key's average against Australia is 17.

Neither inspires much confidence on past record, Andy Flower has confirmed Bell is the next in line anyway so the argument is largely academic.

Be interesting to see what happens for Headingley if Bopara fails again.