The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 11:57 am  

Guys this is just a plea to you all I think we all need to take a step back,it appears over the last few months we seem on here to being enjoying several heated debates (me included),Someone described it to me as Cougar Baiting,maybe they had a point,he also said our efforts would be better spent fighting the real enemy.That for me struck a cord. Since the heyday of Cougarmania it seems all our chairman have been colourful and controversial characters,(some were only controversial).Most I would suggest have at some point driven us all to the point of despair. Many, many good people have come and gone who worked at the club some paid some unpaid,a large number of whom have left in a cloud of bitterness and with the feeling of being let down.I have seen this first hand and the final outcome was tragic for all concearned and is something I will never forget and never forgive. For me the Cougars is a unique club with a history and tradition like no other,this I guess for me why we are still here. Many other clubs with lesser problems have gone to the wall,we are still here still trying to be different and still trying to change Rugby League for the good of all,and to be honest who ever is in charge at the Cougars we still manage to do those things. Chairman will come and go,each will have there own slant on how to run the club and I can guarantee each at some point will evoke anger and suspision from us all,I dont think the UN, The Dalai Lami could get get us all to agree on how to run the club.That I am afaid is the nature of the club.We all care deeply about the Cougars and that will always create strong positive and negative emotions. Proffesional sports clubs it appears are never run like any other business,normal rules that apply in the business world just dont seem to apply,and that is where the conflict arises. I am full of admiration for all the people, paid and unpaid who work at the Cougars,some times it appears no matter what they do, it wont be right.But if your a fan first, my advice would be if your going to step forward and help,Remember you were a fan first and when or if the fallout happens thats what you want to return to,unfortunatly for many that has not been the case. Its clear there are many questions about the future and the direction of the club even the here and now is not clear,but the harsh truth is until a Russian or far Eastern Tycoon comes along it is what it is. But for me the real war is with the RFL, Superleague and Sky,unless we change how the game is run,stuctured and marketed,the priority of course being relagtion and promotion,In 10 years Rugby League outside the top clubs will have all but gone.By all means continue to debate,argue and air your views on the Cougars but remember the real front lines at Red Hall and thats where we should all aim our fire and concentrate our efforts,otherwise we wont have a game or a club to argue over. JOIN THE FIGHT ! http://andyburnhammp.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... rugby.html

Guys this is just a plea to you all I think we all need to take a step back,it appears over the last few months we seem on here to being enjoying several heated debates (me included),Someone described it to me as Cougar Baiting,maybe they had a point,he also said our efforts would be better spent fighting the real enemy.That for me struck a cord. Since the heyday of Cougarmania it seems all our chairman have been colourful and controversial characters,(some were only controversial).Most I would suggest have at some point driven us all to the point of despair. Many, many good people have come and gone who worked at the club some paid some unpaid,a large number of whom have left in a cloud of bitterness and with the feeling of being let down.I have seen this first hand and the final outcome was tragic for all concearned and is something I will never forget and never forgive. For me the Cougars is a unique club with a history and tradition like no other,this I guess for me why we are still here. Many other clubs with lesser problems have gone to the wall,we are still here still trying to be different and still trying to change Rugby League for the good of all,and to be honest who ever is in charge at the Cougars we still manage to do those things. Chairman will come and go,each will have there own slant on how to run the club and I can guarantee each at some point will evoke anger and suspision from us all,I dont think the UN, The Dalai Lami could get get us all to agree on how to run the club.That I am afaid is the nature of the club.We all care deeply about the Cougars and that will always create strong positive and negative emotions. Proffesional sports clubs it appears are never run like any other business,normal rules that apply in the business world just dont seem to apply,and that is where the conflict arises. I am full of admiration for all the people, paid and unpaid who work at the Cougars,some times it appears no matter what they do, it wont be right.But if your a fan first, my advice would be if your going to step forward and help,Remember you were a fan first and when or if the fallout happens thats what you want to return to,unfortunatly for many that has not been the case. Its clear there are many questions about the future and the direction of the club even the here and now is not clear,but the harsh truth is until a Russian or far Eastern Tycoon comes along it is what it is. But for me the real war is with the RFL, Superleague and Sky,unless we change how the game is run,stuctured and marketed,the priority of course being relagtion and promotion,In 10 years Rugby League outside the top clubs will have all but gone.By all means continue to debate,argue and air your views on the Cougars but remember the real front lines at Red Hall and thats where we should all aim our fire and concentrate our efforts,otherwise we wont have a game or a club to argue over. JOIN THE FIGHT ! http://andyburnhammp.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... rugby.html

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 12:41 pm  

Automatic promotion and relegation betwen the leagues is essential. Whatever form it takes, the priority of those that run the game and the clubs should be to make it happen.

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 1:08 pm  

Whilst I agree with Andy Burnham, I wonder if his main reason for raising the subject at this moment in time is because he's the sitting MP for Leigh? Why, as a MP, hasn't he contacted the All Party Group of MP's who support Rugby League? Surely such a Group would carry far-more weight than an individual? http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/rugby-league.htm

Whilst I agree with Andy Burnham, I wonder if his main reason for raising the subject at this moment in time is because he's the sitting MP for Leigh? Why, as a MP, hasn't he contacted the All Party Group of MP's who support Rugby League? Surely such a Group would carry far-more weight than an individual? http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/rugby-league.htm

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 3:02 pm  

The thing is, are the RFL the enemy or is it 14 Super League chairmen?

If it wasn't for the RFL we wouldn't have a club, it was them renewing the lease on the ground from the Co-Op that saved us. Had we gone bust with no where to play, no one right in their head would have even considered bring the club out of administration.

The Super League chairmen know they're on to a cushy thing. Using Sky TV money as leverage they've managed to create a business model that, unless they run their club like an idiot, gives their business protectionism from potential competition. They're not going to want to get rid of that without a fight.

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 3:30 pm  

Fair point,but the RFL will dance to what ever tune sky and super league play,the RFL is a multi layered organisation and a fantastic amount of good work is done further done the ladder,but at the top I am afraid its the same old story,self serving individuals who dont have the best interest of the game at heart.

I dont really care what Andy Burnhams motives are,at least its a starting point,,the rest of us have moaned for years but have done Jack all,but now at least its on the agenda, and thats due to people like him and Mike Smith.

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 3:33 pm  

The Chairman of the 'big clubs' shouldn't be too strongly against what's best for the game - automatic promotion & relegation in this case (and only talking about one up, one down each year).

Wigan, Warrington, St Helens, Leeds, etc shouldn't end up bottom of the league anyway. So, in reality, this proposal is only likely to be strongly opposed by say half a dozen Chairmen (Chairmen of the weakest SL clubs). The rest of the game - the RFL representing ALL clubs - as well as the Chairman of the top Supoer League Clubs -should fight FOR it.

You could see from the comments of the Warrington fans after the match at Cougar Park this year, that they found it a breath of fresh to play a club from outside the current Super League closed shop. Fans of SL clubs get fed up with playing the same old clubs year-in, year-out with no prospect of a new team going in to Super League.

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 4:17 pm  

666 wrote: Whilst I agree with Andy Burnham, I wonder if his main reason for raising the subject at this moment in time is because he's the sitting MP for Leigh? Why, as a MP, hasn't he contacted the All Party Group of MP's who support Rugby League? Surely such a Group would carry far-more weight than an individual? http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/rugby-league.htm Must admit that was my first thought also, but having read more about the bloke he seems to have more than just a casual relationship with RL and I believe his son also plays. I think his feelings may be more genuine than just another MP looking for political mileage. However, I would have thought the All Party Group would have carried more weight, but it may be that they don't agree with him. The anti franchising lobby will say the financial meltdown of Bradford, Wakefield and Crusaders are evidence of the failure of the system, that "it's just not British" and RL has created a glass ceiling and closed shop. The pro lobby will say it "needs more time to bed in" then start pulling out selected attendance figures and compare them against pre 1995 figures, then say that under a promotion and relegation system we would never have developed players like Sam Tomkins because the pressure for success would have been to great to risk playing them.....then say "we earn all the money, what's it got to do with you" ...... etc.... I've seen all the arguments, they are endless. I can see why franchising could work, and they are good reasons, but unfortunately most of the SL chairmen care for one thing only, grabbing the cash - so expecting promotion and relegation is a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Personally I think SL needs a reduction in current numbers and an SL division 2 should be formed so that the route for progression is smooth rather than having an insurmountable hurdle at the end. But that's another story.

666 wrote: Whilst I agree with Andy Burnham, I wonder if his main reason for raising the subject at this moment in time is because he's the sitting MP for Leigh? Why, as a MP, hasn't he contacted the All Party Group of MP's who support Rugby League? Surely such a Group would carry far-more weight than an individual? http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/rugby-league.htm Must admit that was my first thought also, but having read more about the bloke he seems to have more than just a casual relationship with RL and I believe his son also plays. I think his feelings may be more genuine than just another MP looking for political mileage. However, I would have thought the All Party Group would have carried more weight, but it may be that they don't agree with him. The anti franchising lobby will say the financial meltdown of Bradford, Wakefield and Crusaders are evidence of the failure of the system, that "it's just not British" and RL has created a glass ceiling and closed shop. The pro lobby will say it "needs more time to bed in" then start pulling out selected attendance figures and compare them against pre 1995 figures, then say that under a promotion and relegation system we would never have developed players like Sam Tomkins because the pressure for success would have been to great to risk playing them.....then say "we earn all the money, what's it got to do with you" ...... etc.... I've seen all the arguments, they are endless. I can see why franchising could work, and they are good reasons, but unfortunately most of the SL chairmen care for one thing only, grabbing the cash - so expecting promotion and relegation is a bit like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. Personally I think SL needs a reduction in current numbers and an SL division 2 should be formed so that the route for progression is smooth rather than having an insurmountable hurdle at the end. But that's another story.

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 4:28 pm  

Stealth Comic wrote:

The thing is, are the RFL the enemy or is it 14 Super League chairmen?

If it wasn't for the RFL we wouldn't have a club, it was them renewing the lease on the ground from the Co-Op that saved us. Had we gone bust with no where to play, no one right in their head would have even considered bring the club out of administration.

The Super League chairmen know they're on to a cushy thing. Using Sky TV money as leverage they've managed to create a business model that, unless they run their club like an idiot, gives their business protectionism from potential competition. They're not going to want to get rid of that without a fight.

I'd agree with most of that.

Re: The Real Enemy! : Thu May 24, 2012 4:58 pm  

shaunw78 wrote:

........ the RFL will dance to what ever tune sky and super league play....,

I think that's true to some extent Shaun, Sky seem to have the upper hand with negotiations, but until a credible rival for the TV rights emerges, the RFL have a difficult task. I think last time there was some other interest so lets hope its the same next time. What the RFL needs is a team of smart negotiators.

As far as SL chairmen go, well some of them seem good at spouting self serving nonsense when the need arises. When you consider that Hull Kr are in multi million pound debt to their directors, Saints owe a considerable wedge for the stadium, Huddersfield, London, Warrington, and to some extent Salford and Widnes have needed sugar daddies to get where they are, Bradford, Wakefield and Crusader have been through financial meltdown, you can see how they are desperate to hang on to every last penny.

I truly think that most of SL just want the Championship to quietly go away. Or at best be feeder clubs who play mainly under 21's and the odd SL first teamer who needs some game time. Happy families.