Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 10:28 am  

guess who wrote:

It was never a sending of.
Raynor went in to knock the ball out. He caught the lad fair enough, but he was low and it was at full speed. Something the replays were not done at.

Watch it again at full speed. You see that type of tackle attempted every week.

He made a honest attempt to get the ball. Thats more than Tompkins tries to do. He goes in with the knees when trying to do the same thing.

Also watch the reaction of the Wigan players. Even they didn't think it was a bad one.

I know it was a Dulls player, but come on people watch the game with both eyes open.

Utter rubbish. Believe me I watched the game with my eyes wide open and the only debate can be around his intent. Sending off every time. Having made direct, dangerous contact with an players head there can only be one outcome. Ganson used the available technology and whilst he's not my favourite ref I think he got this one spot on. Dulls' player, Cougars player my opinion would be the same.

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 10:34 am  

Dreamer wrote:

Poor play by Raynor with nasty consequences but I thought in RL the Refs judged the action not the result. Are we going to see every high tackle given a red card from now on or are we going to have some sort of scale that determines how serious the resultant injury is???

This was hardly a typical hight shot with respect. The player had begun a dive for the line and was hit in the face. Intent or not there can only be one outcome. I'm sure coaches do tell players to try and dislodge the ball which as I have said in an earlier post is high risk. If you get it wrong then they have to suffer the consequences.

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 10:46 am  

guess who wrote:

Also watch the reaction of the Wigan players. Even they didn't think it was a bad one.

Having just looked at it again Joel Tomkins had to be marched away from the ref by his own teammates. Ganson can be heard saying to him "You speak to me like that again and you're off"

If you look at the behind the posts view of the incident Raynor misses the ball by quite a way. I really don't think a super league player's hand eye coordination can be that bad for it to be unintentional.

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 12:00 pm  

Stealth Comic wrote:

If you look at the behind the posts view of the incident Raynor misses the ball by quite a way. I really don't think a super league player's hand eye coordination can be that bad for it to be unintentional.

Just checked it again on iplayer and from that angle it does look very bad. I tried to freeze the frame at the point Raynor starts his swing but the iplayer resolution isn't the best. It looks like Raynor swings at the point Tompkins starts to reach so when Raynor lands Tomkins arms are at full stretch (and the ball has moved from close to his chest to arms length). IMHO this makes it look like Raynor has missed by a mile and therefore makes it look more deliberate.

Brilliant try though!

Check that site that we cannot talk about and enter "Adrian Morley gets ko'd by big hit" - Now that is a deliberate head shot

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 1:43 pm  

Dominance wrote:

Utter rubbish. Believe me I watched the game with my eyes wide open and the only debate can be around his intent. Sending off every time. Having made direct, dangerous contact with an players head there can only be one outcome. Ganson used the available technology and whilst he's not my favourite ref I think he got this one spot on. Dulls' player, Cougars player my opinion would be the same.

They were both diving for the ground. One trying to score, the other trying to do exactly what he should and that is knock the ball out of the players hands.

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 1:45 pm  

Dreamer wrote:

I just think there has been a huge overreaction to this. Sure, the ref has to take action within the rules against any head shot; all players must be protected. But I just can’t see how Raynor deliberately tried to punch him on the jaw.

Both players were sprinting as fast as they possibly could, IMHO Raynor desperately swings his arm in an attempt to punch the ball free and misses only to connect perfectly with the sweet spot on Tompkins jaw.

Why would he possibly want to hit him in the face??? If he was such a good “shot” that he could hit Tompkins in this manner, then it would have been much easier for him to connect with the ball and save a try.

Noble commented that coaches actually coach players to punch at the ball in these situations. Not only that, how many times do we see the defending forward charge head on at the ball carrier, swing his arm at the ball carrying arm only for his arm to bounce up into the face of the attacker.

Poor play by Raynor with nasty consequences but I thought in RL the Refs judged the action not the result. Are we going to see every high tackle given a red card from now on or are we going to have some sort of scale that determines how serious the resultant injury is???

Fantastic post.
Glad to see the hysteria hasn't reached you like it has with others.

Your last sentence makes a fantastic point.

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 1:47 pm  

Stealth Comic wrote:

Having just looked at it again Joel Tomkins had to be marched away from the ref by his own teammates. Ganson can be heard saying to him "You speak to me like that again and you're off"

He has history of doing the same when his brother gets a dig.
He needs to pack it in if he wants to play the Aussies.

Look at the rest of the Wigan team.

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 1:56 pm  

guess who wrote:

They were both diving for the ground. One trying to score, the other trying to do exactly what he should and that is knock the ball out of the players hands.

One was diving for the line, the other lead with a swinging arm and made direct contact with an opponents face.

If he really was going for the ball maybe his aim is as good as your eyesight!

I see the RFL have charged him with the offence so at least there watching the same game I was.

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 2:02 pm  

guess who wrote:

He has history of doing the same when his brother gets a dig.
He needs to pack it in if he wants to play the Aussies.

Look at the rest of the Wigan team.

A bit of a contradiction considering in an earlier post you said the players didn't react?

Re: Raynor - Yes or No? : Tue May 24, 2011 2:11 pm  

I cannot believe folk truly believe it was not a sending off. Sounds like there were 2 games going on due to differing views. What Tompkins is like as a player has absolutely nothing to do with the sending off. Surely Guess Who you are not infering it served him right because he is sometimes like a spoilt brat.
Tompkins on his day is the type of player to get under nose of aussies a bit like Jimmy Lowes used to do.