Clarity needed ! : Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:45 pm  

Hi Guys, I know we are all aware of the new rule - changes, having just read TRL on line, they are stating that when a ball is knocked on over the goal line or the ball goes dead for a drop out, then the clock doesn't start straight away, so if a player goes down injured the clock won't start until after treatment ???
At what point will a clock start, who starts that clock ? How do supporters know when it starts ? How does anyone know the time up is correct ? Is it a 10 m of 20 m free kick ? Does/ is the ref responsible to make all the calls ?
Will the same diagnosis & running the system of shot clock apply to the scrums where ever they are, can there be a turnover defence/attack, can a player go down & signal for attention prior to a scrum forming & the clock starting ?
Can a player be sin bind or sent off for not playing within the spirit of the game, ie, professionally breaking the rules ? - - wow is more clarity needed ??

Re: Clarity needed ! : Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:26 am  

we could start be having an independent assessor with a cattle prod checking for fain injuries

Re: Clarity needed ! : Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 am  

TrinTrin wrote:

Hi Guys, I know we are all aware of the new rule - changes, having just read TRL on line, they are stating that when a ball is knocked on over the goal line or the ball goes dead for a drop out, then the clock doesn't start straight away, so if a player goes down injured the clock won't start until after treatment ???
At what point will a clock start, who starts that clock ? How do supporters know when it starts ? How does anyone know the time up is correct ? Is it a 10 m of 20 m free kick ? Does/ is the ref responsible to make all the calls ?
Will the same diagnosis & running the system of shot clock apply to the scrums where ever they are, can there be a turnover defence/attack, can a player go down & signal for attention prior to a scrum forming & the clock starting ?
Can a player be sin bind or sent off for not playing within the spirit of the game, ie, professionally breaking the rules ? - - wow is more clarity needed ??

Its down to the ref to call time off ann on, with the two timekeepers (one from each club) responsible for the starting and stopping of the clock).
As for the restart or penalty decision, it's up to the ref.

The main issue, which is still unresolved is whether a player is actually injured and the time taken for treatment and it's the fkae injuries (with miracle recoveries) which really wind up the fans.
Nobody is bothered if it takes 10 minutes to deal with a serious injury but the blatant time wasting needs to be dealt with.
Although it's extremely pedantic, we could do with a few weeks of retrospective scrutiny and maybe a few one match bans for players that are cheating (deliberate time wasting). This is clealy ott but it would go a long way to getting the game back to where it should be.

Re: Clarity needed ! : Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 am  

Send for the Magic Sponge.

Re: Clarity needed ! : Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:15 am  

How are you ever going to be able to genuinely tell if a player is hurt or not? You can`t. I don`t really care about the stop clock or how it works, it shouldn't really effect that, if a player is down injured and the referee has to stop the game then the clock should be stopped straight away, therefore the player so called feigning injury would gain nothing by doing so, apart from a breather for everyone on the field.

Re: Clarity needed ! : Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:28 pm  

I am fine with your comments - however, the supposed player faking an injury is not just time wasting, take the case of Chris Hill, even leeds fans on their forum recognize & comment about him faking injury equaling cheating just to allow his players defending to "re-set" + gain composure rather than his side having confusion in speed of play & be in the wrong position in numbers, ie, bunching. He did this in both home games @ Belle Vue last season with miraculas recovery !
In my humble opinion, any player injured other than serious, should vacate the field for one or two sets, that would stop the faking, however if genuine - doctor stating to the ref, he probably has to leave the field so scrub missing sets !
It's the cheaters that's the problem ! most players prefer to play-on & as his team moves on he waves for attention thus not stopping play.
Once a time shot drop out is called & time keepers keep time then televised games are fine, the ref has an ear-phone, but non - televised games he does not always have an ear - phone, if he does its usually only with the lines men ?? Clearly the RFL have not declared how all this in detail, is going to work !

Re: Clarity needed ! : Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:28 am  

Football have a rule whereby when the physio/ Dr come on to the field for player, the player must leave the field until the referee allows him to return.

It would be interesting for this concept to be introduced in to rugby. If an injury occurs to a defending teams player at the time of a 'shot clock', then the player 'injured' must leave the field for 2-3 plays/ tackles before being allowed back on to the field. Anyone injured prior to this would allowed- as the team would already have been a player down whilst the other team have had the ball. You would also expect that the ref would stop the game/ match clock due to the injury anyway. This would hopefully discourage the faking injuries whilst not unfairly treating those who are genuinely injured throughout the game.

Re: Clarity needed ! : Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:15 pm  

TheMightyTrin wrote:

Football have a rule whereby when the physio/ Dr come on to the field for player, the player must leave the field until the referee allows him to return.

It would be interesting for this concept to be introduced in to rugby. If an injury occurs to a defending teams player at the time of a 'shot clock', then the player 'injured' must leave the field for 2-3 plays/ tackles before being allowed back on to the field. Anyone injured prior to this would allowed- as the team would already have been a player down whilst the other team have had the ball. You would also expect that the ref would stop the game/ match clock due to the injury anyway. This would hopefully discourage the faking injuries whilst not unfairly treating those who are genuinely injured throughout the game.

Stopping the clock doesnt really help.
Certainly with regard to drop outs, all the messing about, faking injuries, kicking the ball dead, is done to allow the defending side to "get their breath back" and prepare to defend a reapet set. Stopping the clock may even help the efending side.
As I mentioned in a previous post, if a player is injured for a scrum/drop out, they should leave the field. This will slow the game down initially but, ultimately, it will remove most of the gamesmanship from the situation.

Re: Clarity needed ! : Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:06 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Stopping the clock doesnt really help.
Certainly with regard to drop outs, all the messing about, faking injuries, kicking the ball dead, is done to allow the defending side to "get their breath back" and prepare to defend a reapet set. Stopping the clock may even help the efending side.
As I mentioned in a previous post, if a player is injured for a scrum/drop out, they should leave the field. This will slow the game down initially but, ultimately, it will remove most of the gamesmanship from the situation.

Leave the field using one of the interchanges or play with 12 men for that certain period?

It goes back to the point there would never be any way that you could ever tell if a player is hurt or not so are we now suggesting punishing a team for a player that is genuinely temporarily hurt on the field?

I am with you on this by the way, I saw Catalan employ these tactics on a few occasions last year and it just pathetic and against the morals of am honest game. I wish there was but I just don't think there is a way to police it without also punishing players for being hurt.

Re: Clarity needed ! : Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:19 pm  

homme vaste wrote:

Leave the field using one of the interchanges or play with 12 men for that certain period?

It goes back to the point there would never be any way that you could ever tell if a player is hurt or not so are we now suggesting punishing a team for a player that is genuinely temporarily hurt on the field?

I am with you on this by the way, I saw Catalan employ these tactics on a few occasions last year and it just pathetic and against the morals of am honest game. I wish there was but I just don't think there is a way to police it without also punishing players for being hurt.

I think that for a period of time the side with an @injured@ player has to go with 12 men, just so that "we" can get back to playing the sport "properly".
Alternatively, go for some retrospective review of "injured" players.

There will always be gamesmanship in any sport ut, some of the timewasting has reached epidemic proportions and if nothing is done, things will deterioate further.