How the moves & passing game has changed. : Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:22 pm  

We all watch the modern game & remark on ball handlers in particular from stand off's. Harold Boynton passed on his skills to Dave Topliss in particular from set scrums, winning the ball running single & double scissor running moves which took out tackles & left a different attacker with pace having space created scoring a brilliant try.
Toppo also learned from Neil Fox at the age of 20 being fast and elusive taking passes off Neil from a loose forward which Fox played on his return as player coach, rarely did defenders stop them.
Forwards then played a tight interactive game conjuring up inter-passing between forwards & or a short pass to a half back sending him away, three quarters had to watch & move up quickly when the line was broken to connect with the half backs.Great passing forwards with varying passing skills are not in the game today.
Yes teams & players are fitter now but are robots compared to previous passing skilled forwards. if those previous skilled players were in this era with these current levels of diet & fitness then I leave you to have your own opinions.
I do not de-cry the current game or players, only lament on skills lost !!!
I am and will always be a Trinity supporter, on earth & in heaven, basically where ever i may be - up the Trin !

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:49 pm  

An inevitable consequence of full-time professionalism.

If you are limited to training a couple of times a week, at night, and back then probably playing as much as training (30 league games a year, plus Yorkshire Cup, Floodlit Trophy, Regal/John Player Trophy, Challenge Cup, and Premiership Trophy), you will always play on instinct, as there is no time to learn moves.

There is a foreword in Don Fox's book where his longtime pal who used to play with him decided that he and Don should learn some moves. They practised three. At the scrum or tackle, he said to Don, "number two". Don paused, and said, "which one is that?". There ended their practised moves.

Yes, very structured, but if you've got time to learn the, you'll use them. I'd like to see more unstructured play as a spectator, but coaches go for the win, not the entertainment.

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:03 pm  

Two very different games you highlight, Trin.
In the past the forwards were slower and that allowed more space for the skill and pace of the backs. How I also wish we had the old fashioned ball handling forwards we had then but they don't exist now because the attack progresses in other ways, with emphasis on muscle, power and pace rather than the artistic skills of the past.
The game is what it is now, I'm ok with it but I do wish the scrums were contested because they're a bit of a waste of time as they are.

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:42 pm  

Brilliant replies, I always enjoy our forum !!!

[PopTart]

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:15 pm  

There is no doubt the platers of the past had skills but it was a different game.
Because they weren't as fit and defences weren't as strong, the player on the ball had more time to be skillful and off the cuff. You have to plan now to be fast enough.
Saying that in the old days if they did catch you they could practically hit you with a machete.

The one skill I do notice in modern times is the long pass. Clearly Wally Lewis made that very popular to practise but now the acting halfback can pass 3 or 4 times further than the old days. Maybe summer rugby and no scrums helps passing and fitness too.

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:52 pm  

The 10 metre rule has made the biggest difference to the attacking game, with a 5 metre defence every team HAD to have playmakers who could get through and behind the defensive line. Today with the 10 metre distance, five strong drives can take you to and beyond the half way line where a kick & chase serves to complete the set. This wasn’t possible under the 5 metre rule unless you’re opposition we’re completely overmatched.

The game doesn’t demand that today’s players are as skilful as back then, fitter and stronger yes but not as skilled. Each team & club had a number of skilled playmakers like Murphy, Poynton, Holmes, Nash, Myler, Hardisty, Millward, Woods, Gregory, Adams, Pinner, Arkwright, Bowden etc. There isn’t a single player in today’s game with comparable skills to Steve Norton, as I said before, the game no longer demands it so it dòesnt now develop it!

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:47 am  

It’s a good debate but in the end it’s pointless (but fun). It’s just impossible to know really, today’s players are so much stronger and faster and the rules so different it’s like two different sports. Would the players of yesteryear even have the time and space to demonstrate their skills and instinct? That’s the question that can’t be answered I’m afraid.

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:22 pm  

excellent topic. can,t help but think,most of the forwards in the 60,s would have been sent off in the first 20 minuits,lol

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:54 pm  

trinity1 wrote:

excellent topic. can,t help but think,most of the forwards in the 60,s would have been sent off in the first 20 minuits,lol

Or collapsed in a heap

Re: How the moves & passing game has changed. : Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:17 pm  

Hi guys, some details to take on board, the four tackle rule came in before the six tackle rule in December 1966. There was no hand over if you were caught on the fourth tackle, it was a scrum down. However, provided you kicked the ball & it bounced before it went into touch you/your team got the put-in & open side head - advantage to the scrum half, only the hooker could strike when the ball hit the floor ? Scrums were contested by push weight & holding the opposition. The ball had to come out behind the 2nd row. The hooker had to put the ball in straight & with no upward motion ! Naturally scrums could be a lottery & some refs were poor at controlling the whole scrum rules giving penalties regularly ! Props & hookers + 2nd rowers got caught with "feet-up" this giving away a penalty, continued offending resulted in being sent off, which did not always happen.
Take note that wakefield became double champions under the four tackle rule Don Fox being the master kicker to touch line kicking torpedo screw kicks just above the players height & the ball rolling into touch nearly always beating the winger & able to roll the ball into/before the corner flag, scrum to wakefield, further four tackles. Scrum position always square to at point of entry & 10yards in. So if the ball went into touch 1yard from the try line then the scrum tunnel was 1yard from the line not as currently ! Emphasis was on attacking play.a
This the game had speeded up considerably and remember each side was only 5yards from a play the ball point, 10 yards apart. Only two substitutes per side per game.
They were part time players but rarely did the main teams/players & special players have heavy full jobs other than players working in the pit's
I still think that a human being then brought into current day diets, full time training would be every bit as fit as the current players.
The Australians were the first to start the six tackle rule as their game then being so sterio type could not create attacking play. RFL here adopted six tackle rule in 1972 ! Ball being handed over to opposition if caught with the ball, no scrum. At first there was alot of aimless kicking & panic kicking. Thus the game you see now has been tweaked & teams + tacticians all play the same way same tactics, awaiting mistakes.
However I still get a thrill when players like our Tom scores spectacular tries.
Up the Trin.