Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:06 am  

So here we are then, another major upheaval of the sport, or maybe not! I was thinking back to the 'visionary' that was Mr. Lindsey and the birth of the 'European' Super League. Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, maybe even Dublin, Edinburgh given time......... Oh well, at least having had a French presence has improved their national team? Seen as that was the idea back then, let's see how France perform in the World Cup. What is actually better now about the game than say in the '90's? Then you had some teams playing 40 odd games and nowhere near the amount of injuries that we have/had in the last few years. Cups that could be won by the 'lesser' clubs, the County cups, the Regal trophy, remember that?! As far as i can see, Wigan, Leeds, Saints, getting no bigger attendances now than back then in the depths of Winter? Has the product improved on the field in Summer? I've seen too many games in perfect conditions with appalling skill levels, and zero intensity. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying most fans would not prefer to watch in bright, warm conditions, instead of horizontal rain freezing cold, but yet still those people turned up when the game was 'dying'.....again!

So maybe it is time to go full circle and say the Summer venture hasn't worked, on many levels. Maybe it's time to start the season in early September and finish late April. The proposal to start in mid March is ridiculous, meaning for some clubs an off season of 6 months?!! No competitive games, no matchday revenue etc! Let's have MORE cups and finals, not less, let's have Great Britain tours back in our Summer, let's have Kangaroo tours, and NZ tours in our Autumn. It's time to say generally the last 25 years hasn't improved the sport.

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:10 am  

Wildcatnomore wrote:

So here we are then, another major upheaval of the sport, or maybe not! I was thinking back to the 'visionary' that was Mr. Lindsey and the birth of the 'European' Super League. Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, maybe even Dublin, Edinburgh given time......... Oh well, at least having had a French presence has improved their national team? Seen as that was the idea back then, let's see how France perform in the World Cup. What is actually better now about the game than say in the '90's? Then you had some teams playing 40 odd games and nowhere near the amount of injuries that we have/had in the last few years. Cups that could be won by the 'lesser' clubs, the County cups, the Regal trophy, remember that?! As far as i can see, Wigan, Leeds, Saints, getting no bigger attendances now than back then in the depths of Winter? Has the product improved on the field in Summer? I've seen too many games in perfect conditions with appalling skill levels, and zero intensity. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying most fans would not prefer to watch in bright, warm conditions, instead of horizontal rain freezing cold, but yet still those people turned up when the game was 'dying'.....again!

So maybe it is time to go full circle and say the Summer venture hasn't worked, on many levels. Maybe it's time to start the season in early September and finish late April. The proposal to start in mid March is ridiculous, meaning for some clubs an off season of 6 months?!! No competitive games, no matchday revenue etc! Let's have MORE cups and finals, not less, let's have Great Britain tours back in our Summer, let's have Kangaroo tours, and NZ tours in our Autumn. It's time to say generally the last 25 years hasn't improved the sport.

Sorry don't agree. Being a summer game has saved the sport IMHO. If we were still winter the game would be dead or swallowed up by RU, We certainly wouldn't have a TV deal and thus SL would not be a pro sport bar two or three teams, maybe.

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:19 am  

vastman wrote:

Sorry don't agree. Being a summer game has saved the sport IMHO. If we were still winter the game would be dead or swallowed up by RU, We certainly wouldn't have a TV deal and thus SL would not be a pro sport bar two or three teams, maybe.

Saved the sport from what exactly?! Hurtling into complete oblivion?! We've been competing with Football and RU for the last 100 years, including TV and media coverage. 1996 was all hype and bluster just like IMG now, hence Full circle, we were told back then it was dying, so if the 'model' of the last 25 years has worked so well, why have IMG been brought in???!!!

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:33 am  

I don’t think you can go back to winter rugby now but I too would like to see an extra competition and trophy boy not unlike the old Players No6 . It’s unlikely to happen though because they’re actually wanting to reduce games not increase them.

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:54 am  

Wildcatnomore wrote:

Saved the sport from what exactly?! Hurtling into complete oblivion?! We've been competing with Football and RU for the last 100 years, including TV and media coverage. 1996 was all hype and bluster just like IMG now, hence Full circle, we were told back then it was dying, so if the 'model' of the last 25 years has worked so well, why have IMG been brought in???!!!

It's a fair point for debate, so I see it as the following.

Yes, it's on record, the sport was bankrupt by 1994ish.

We weren't competing with football, once the Premier League kicked in Soccer went through the roof.

We had zero TV coverage for the league pre SKY, and a derisory effort from the BBC for the CCup.

With RU's six nations and International fixture if were we competing against them in the winter, SKY, let alone anyone else, wouldn't have looked at us twice once Union went pro. They would have destroyed us because to the untrained public what would be our point in RL. Union dwarfs League nowadays, competing head on would be suicide.

Who do you think would pay what SKY pay now for a winter game (and that include SKY themselves) IMHO nobody, we'd get zip. The schedules are full of winter sports alreadY, summer is our USP.

Just how I see it, so it's a non starter for me. I mean that quite literally, I'm not freezing through a winter on the terraces or wondering if the game is even on, count me out.

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:27 am  

1315trinity wrote:

I don’t think you can go back to winter rugby now but I too would like to see an extra competition and trophy boy not unlike the old Players No6 . It’s unlikely to happen though because they’re actually wanting to reduce games not increase them.

Well I get the impression they want to reduce the league games but increase the latter stages of challenge cup/competition games (2-legs) and international games.

The 2 leg games would mean that both homes and away would get gates though in the interest of both clubs and lower league clubs I believe both games money should be put together and split evenly. That would be a boost for champ teams who make it far in the comp.

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:30 am  

Trojan Horse wrote:

Well I get the impression they want to reduce the league games but increase the latter stages of challenge cup/competition games (2-legs) and international games.

The 2 leg games would mean that both homes and away would get gates though in the interest of both clubs and lower league clubs I believe both games money should be put together and split evenly. That would be a boost for champ teams who make it far in the comp.

Yeah I’d overlooked that. I think that’s a good idea but personally I’d like to see an additional competition but it won’t happen!

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:34 am  

Wildcatnomore wrote:

Saved the sport from what exactly?! Hurtling into complete oblivion?! We've been competing with Football and RU for the last 100 years, including TV and media coverage. 1996 was all hype and bluster just like IMG now, hence Full circle, we were told back then it was dying, so if the 'model' of the last 25 years has worked so well, why have IMG been brought in???!!!

The move to SL wasnt a "choice", the game, primarily due to Wigan and Widnes overspending was just about bankrupt, hence Maurice Lindsay brokering the first Sky deal and the advent of SL.
There are plenty of pros and cons but, as a spectator, summer rugby is massively preferable to the winter.
Plenty of reasons why RL isn't growing, and it will be interesting to see just what effect IMG have on the sport.

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:47 am  

1315trinity wrote:

Yeah I’d overlooked that. I think that’s a good idea but personally I’d like to see an additional competition but it won’t happen!

I’d love to see a mini comp replacing the world club challenge involving a contest between it including NRL and SL teams.

This is what I expected from IMG so I’m a little underwhelmed. See below for my simple idea.

My idea would be this - on a similar basis to Magic. Brought in when licensing starts where there’s no relegation for finishing bottom, time to prep and organise logistics. This could be played 2 weeks before the season commences or mid/ late season.

Over one stadium. Let’s use Newcastle. Even make it a PPV event.

Top 6 from Superleague play top 6 from NRL. Alternatedly played in AUS - UK

1 v 1 STH v PEN (playing for WCC trophy final game on Sun)
2 v 2 WIG v SHA (sat)
3 v 3 HUD v COW(sun)
4 v 4 CAT v EEL (sat)
5 v 5 RHI v STO (sat)
6 v 6 SAL v ROO (sun)

I would absolutely love to see that!! I would suggest it would generate a huge amount of interest and certainly be something new and innovative for the calendar.

Re: Full circle. : Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:54 am  

vastman wrote:

It's a fair point for debate, so I see it as the following.

Yes, it's on record, the sport was bankrupt by 1994ish.

We weren't competing with football, once the Premier League kicked in Soccer went through the roof.

We had zero TV coverage for the league pre SKY, and a derisory effort from the BBC for the CCup.

With RU's six nations and International fixture if were we competing against them in the winter, SKY, let alone anyone else, wouldn't have looked at us twice once Union went pro. They would have destroyed us because to the untrained public what would be our point in RL. Union dwarfs League nowadays, competing head on would be suicide.

Who do you think would pay what SKY pay now for a winter game (and that include SKY themselves) IMHO nobody, we'd get zip. The schedules are full of winter sports alreadY, summer is our USP.

Just how I see it, so it's a non starter for me. I mean that quite literally, I'm not freezing through a winter on the terraces or wondering if the game is even on, count me out.

Fair enough, a lot of what you say is probably true. Let's remember though, pre Sky in 1990 BSB came about with a triangular dish! I still have an old VHS tape of when we played Australia, when Andy Mason scored a great try, they showed top flight games and introduced us to Eddie & Stevo well before the Summer era. I do realise that if a poll was taken about going back to Winter probably 80% of fans and players would say no thanks. I'm 50 next year, but if it came about, it wouldn't bother me, if i was fit and able i would go in any season. Even though i was being a bit tongue in cheek with my original post, we still are a 'Northern' game, the expansion never did happen, never mind the big cities i mentioned, which were the original 'dream' like i said. I do think we have rested on our laurels somewhat as in on the field. Ironically with RU, i think it's a far more attractive game to watch than it was even say 10 years ago, probably because half the coaches involved at clubs are ex league! I just think that if the powers that be think we need a big change, then let's have a bit more than, we'll reduce the number of games, a bit of tinkering here and there, and it's all just a damp squib that doesn't actually achieve anything in the long term.....