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IMG - Performance : Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:46 am  

Just wanted to shift to this one as the comment in New Era would probably take it off topic

The league position is quite complicated.

Firstly, it's an average over 3 years.
You are then ranked against everyone else and given a final position (maybe the same) and allocated the points.

Also, final position for those in the playoffs are judged on playoff results.
So if you finish 7th you finish 7th (19th in IMG points table) but if you finish 6th but make it through to the final you finish 2nd (14th in the IMG points table)

So the swing of points in the season can be big (0.11 per league position) especially for Championship as you get 0.25 for winning GF but its still an average over 3 years so it has to be consistent change to make a difference

Those small points matter though.
Positions 10-14 are separated by 0.95 points.
So the league position, though small matters.

Winning the GF is a big target for us that will keep us in contact with those above.
Any club that has the "we'll be fine" attitude will fail badly in my opinion.

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Re: IMG Performance score : Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:13 pm  

Taking this further, the way to increase your performance score is in two parts

This is how I work out the Performance points for the league. The bottom half looks like this

 Huddersfield Giants ------ 10.0002 ---- 3.33
 Salford Red Devils --------- 9.6669 ---- 3.22
 Castleford Tigers ------------ 9.5558 ---- 3.11
 Hull FC ------------------------- 9.3336 ---- 3.00
 Leigh Leopards --------------- 9.0003 ---- 2.89
 Wakefield Trinity -------------- 8.7781 ---- 2.78
 Toulouse Olympique  ---------- 8.2504 ---- 2.67

Hard to explain without pictures but the final column takes the positions over 3 years and then allocates the score based on position

So,
1) To move up, you need to improve on your position 3 years ago - this is the only way to change the average score over 3 years.
So for us we finished 10th in 2021. The only way to match that score is to win the GF and win 1895. If not we reduce by a small fraction.

2) and then that average score needs to be better than the team above you (or below you to stay the same)
The team above us is Leigh. They are going to get more points this year than they did in 2021 as they were relegated in 2021, so we are really not getting more points on the Performance criteria this year.
More importantly we need to finish above Toulouse. They are a long way behind in score so actually, by my calculations, the only way the will finish higher on the Performance criteria than us is if they win GF and 1895, and we finish 4th in the playoffs.

So for this year, those points are probably safe for us.

However, the feel good from us winning GF etc will improve finance scores and attendance scores and fandom scores, which are much more volatile stats to improve.
And getting into Super League is the only way we will improve that performance score for the following years.(Like Leigh have)

Hope that makes sense

Re: IMG Performance score : Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:35 pm  

Can you clarify please.
You call it bottom half with 7 clubs so are these the top 7 clubs with Grade B's?
The columns are a bit erratic so could you clarify what each column represents please.
Presumably this is only the performance criteria being compared which in reality is one of the hardest to make a significant impact on overall grading as the placings only carry 0.11point for each place in the league unless a team can make a lasting leap up the table.

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Re: IMG Performance score : Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:46 pm  

FSW wrote:

Can you clarify please.
You call it bottom half with 7 clubs so are these the top 7 clubs with Grade B's?
The columns are a bit erratic so could you clarify what each column represents please.
Presumably this is only the performance criteria being compared which in reality is one of the hardest to make a significant impact on overall grading as the placings only carry 0.11point for each place in the league unless a team can make a lasting leap up the table.

Yes this is only the performance criteria.

The first column is the total points for the last 3 years. So 4 points for top and 0.1111 less for each position below. For 3 years added together.

The next column I took out as it was misleading. The last column is the score allocated when you put them in order.
So even if you get slightly different scores over 3 years, it's a new table in order and they recalculate with 4 at the top and 0.1111 less for each position below.

When I said bottom half, I mean bottom half of the performance table. Could be a grade A there if they have big points elsewhere.

On the lasting impact question, yes, though if you get a jump like Leigh did it can make a difference. If they do that again this year it will push them up again.

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Re: IMG Performance score : Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:35 pm  

Actually, I've just re-read the criteria.
The position in the league is an average over 3 years, but the GF and CC points only apply to the current year.

So baring an absolute disaster, where we finish bottom half of championship and Toulouse win it, we will get the same points for performance of 2.78 as the table reads above
However, if we win the GF and the 1895 we would add 0.35 directly to the IMG score.

Seems a small difference, except when you think we currently have 12.52 overall points.....and Toulouse are 0.45 ahead of us.
With the new stand we will immediately get an extra point which takes us to 13.52
We could add LEDs so that would take us to 13.645

The finance section is quite strong for us already so its hard to improve but with owner investment we could in theory get another 0.25 taking us to 13.895 and we can possibly impact non central turnover with the stadium but as this is an average over 3 years it will take a lot to change that in 1 year

So that extra 0.35 from GF and 1895 is a big impact to the total and could be the difference in getting to the top of the Bs and securely in to SL before the other scores kick in over the years.

Some things we will never get.
We will lose 1 point for community no matter what we do.
Once we are in SL we are unlikely to get the GF or CC points for a while 1 point

The only "easy" points are the LEDs. Everything else is hard work because of the thresholds you have to cross to get the points.

Re: IMG Performance score : Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:19 pm  

PopTart wrote:

Actually, I've just re-read the criteria.
The position in the league is an average over 3 years, but the GF and CC points only apply to the current year.

So baring an absolute disaster, where we finish bottom half of championship and Toulouse win it, we will get the same points for performance of 2.78 as the table reads above
However, if we win the GF and the 1895 we would add 0.35 directly to the IMG score.

Seems a small difference, except when you think we currently have 12.52 overall points.....and Toulouse are 0.45 ahead of us.
With the new stand we will immediately get an extra point which takes us to 13.52
We could add LEDs so that would take us to 13.645

The finance section is quite strong for us already so its hard to improve but with owner investment we could in theory get another 0.25 taking us to 13.895 and we can possibly impact non central turnover with the stadium but as this is an average over 3 years it will take a lot to change that in 1 year

So that extra 0.35 from GF and 1895 is a big impact to the total and could be the difference in getting to the top of the Bs and securely in to SL before the other scores kick in over the years.

Some things we will never get.
We will lose 1 point for community no matter what we do.
Once we are in SL we are unlikely to get the GF or CC points for a while 1 point

The only "easy" points are the LEDs. Everything else is hard work because of the thresholds you have to cross to get the points.

PT you seem to understand all this IMG points scoring, what i want to know,is it possible for Trinity to reach 15 points and an A grade in the coming year / season.

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Re: IMG Performance score : Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:45 pm  

KevW60349 wrote:

PT you seem to understand all this IMG points scoring, what i want to know,is it possible for Trinity to reach 15 points and an A grade in the coming year / season.

I'd really doubt we could do an A this year but we could do it in 2 years.
We can certainly be one of the best Bs this year.

The problem being that some of the scores we need to lift are over a 3 year period so to lift the average in one year would be quite a task.

Re: IMG Performance score : Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:30 pm  

PT...can you clarify the Social Media scoring aspect please (not my strong point) ??
I've subscribed to the Trinity Youtube channel and have started 'liking' the videos on there as I believe this, along with other SM fan-engagament, will eventually help to increase our IMG score, but how much more can us fans do and what is the maximum increase we can achieve by doing such things, please ??

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Re: IMG Performance score : Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:50 pm  

FIL wrote:

PT...can you clarify the Social Media scoring aspect please (not my strong point) ??
I've subscribed to the Trinity Youtube channel and have started 'liking' the videos on there as I believe this, along with other SM fan-engagament, will eventually help to increase our IMG score, but how much more can us fans do and what is the maximum increase we can achieve by doing such things, please ??

It definitely helps. This is a big area to improve but the margins are massive.
Quite complicated to explain. Give me a bit of time and I'll put the details up.

Re: IMG Performance score : Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:54 pm  

No rush mate...I'm here all week