Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:03 pm  

vastman wrote:

I agree, the first two posters are being hugely negative. A bad show by us but who doesn't have them, these two seem to forget that we used to do it all the time against the big teams yet continually ended up bottom three. Belly in particular has more faces than a town hall clock, waxing lyrical about the team and the coaching team a few month ago and now jumping on a bandwagon he seems determined to create after one game.

It is as I say one game - had we won it would be no more relevant but some just love to create mountains out of mole hills, then if they are proved right the revel in it, why I don't know.

We were plain awful and London were plain good - it happens - yet Belly choses to think that Ward is suddenly a genius as opposed to a Coach who's managed two top five finishes. Most laughable if all it's now all suddenly down to Kear, another Coach regularily binned by the OP. Its all a bit pathetic and shows a lack of back bone, ie who needs enemies!

I'm sure I read on here a few days ago that you said London on paper have one of the weakest teams ever in Super League?! Just a shame their pitch isn't made of paper eh.........

Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:38 pm  

The observations & opinions are correct, with regard to organising a defence pattern, strategy & execution, every week on sky all the ex players comment about moving up equally in line, together & not jumping the line, each player talking to next player next to you this to able & control the threat & action of the stacking players. The wires did this even with a man down as pointed out several times & at the end of the match by the interviewed wires players. This it is not rocket science but you have to execute the method making good reads & decisions, you also have to be fit to do it continually as they alluded to on sky. The wires players admitted they train to do this ! WE DO NOT ! Simple as.I
Any other comments are excuses !

Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:42 pm  

Wildmoggy wrote:

I get what you are saying, but how do you 'want' teams to score tries against us?! Unless you think we are going to nil everyone every week! Obviously conceding 8, to the supposed weakest side, is slightly alarming first up no doubt. It's hard being an edge defender, far harder than in the middle of the field. Why do you think year on year the top tryscorers are usually wingers then?! Surely we are not the only team to concede these types of tries when TJ, BJB & MCB over the last couple of seasons have probably scored over 100 tries between them?!

He's not they only one suggesting not being able to defend the edges is somehow indicative of WT, which I think is ridiculous, certainly for at least the last 2-3 seasons we've been better than some and worse than others, its definitely not a feature generally, just the doomongers doomongering.

Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:48 pm  

Yes I agree that past history has several examples of such pathetic performances. However those past teams were not settled sides of the calibre of our present squad.


Lets see the true quality of our players and coaching staff because I am sure the results of the next few games will tell us that.


Anyhow on a lighter note, I can at least think of one positive from yesterdays result. At least the remainers have not picked up on it and blamed it on Brexit uncertainty like everything else that seems to wrong presently

Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:05 pm  

Wildmoggy wrote:

I get what you are saying, but how do you 'want' teams to score tries against us?! Unless you think we are going to nil everyone every week! Obviously conceding 8, to the supposed weakest side, is slightly alarming first up no doubt. It's hard being an edge defender, far harder than in the middle of the field. Why do you think year on year the top tryscorers are usually wingers then?! Surely we are not the only team to concede these types of tries when TJ, BJB & MCB over the last couple of seasons have probably scored over 100 tries between them?!

You’ve spectacularly missed my point

We are making the same errors season after season and seem to concede more tries with edge defenders caught in no mans land whilst facing a 3 v 2 or 4 v 2 than most teams but maybe that’s just my perception of it.

As I said, it makes edge defenders look poor because that’s where the error manifests itself but it’s often not the edge defence who’ve made the initial error

Most tries result from errors or laziness in the middle forcing edge players to ‘step in’ to fill space that should be occupied by a middle putting pressure on from the insíde.

My main gripe is that, John Kear apart, we seem incapable of coaching a competent defensive structure.

In other areas we seem very good (we have to be) the players obviously enjoy being at Wakefield and we can play some exciting attacking rugby which can be up there with the best.

If we want to maintain a decent league finishing position or actually challenge for something then we need to coach a better defence.

Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:49 pm  

there are no excuses for not being fit for this game - we have months and months of pre season and nobody was carrying any niggling injuries...

it was a joke of a performance.

all players and coaching staff are on notice,

we can now (yes after 1 game) stop worrying about top 5 we are miles of that and concentrate on wining the probably 6 games that we need to come second last instead of last.


I am worried.

Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:09 pm  

Said it for years that we don’t move up quick enough in defence to snuff out the attacking plays ,we wait for the opposing team to get up a head of steam before contact and our wingers are constantly stood in field which leaves them in no mans land facing the inevitable overlap .Surely this isn’t rocket science to fix as most other teams seem to have it sorted .Im not pointing the blame at the wingers or anyone in particular as Defence is a team effort,it just looks to me like no one has told the players their roles .

Re: Caoching masterclass : Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:28 pm  

BOJ042 wrote:

there are no excuses for not being fit for this game - we have months and months of pre season and nobody was carrying any niggling injuries...

it was a joke of a performance.

all players and coaching staff are on notice,

we can now (yes after 1 game) stop worrying about top 5 we are miles of that and concentrate on wining the probably 6 games that we need to come second last instead of last.


I am an idiot.

Edited for accuracy.

[PopTart]

Re: Caoching masterclass : Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:21 am  

One game

I'll just leave that there.

Re: Caoching masterclass : Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:09 am  

The Avenger wrote:

If we want to maintain a decent league finishing position or actually challenge for something then we need to coach a better defence.

Hard to argue with that - the ability to defend is what keeps teams like Wigan in the hunt - even when their attack is blunted, which it was for large parts of last season, they are always prepared to defend in a really structured and aggressive way.

I didn't go to London, but having watched the highlights (lowlights?), it does illustrate rather well what Avenger has said - how many of those tries came as a result of an edge defender biting in and a fairly straightforward pass to a winger who glides in unchallenged? The highlights don't always show the full build-up, so it's harder to say where the original defensive breakdown happened, but if centre and winger can't hold their line and communicate, they'll leak like a sieve - which they did.

It's only one match - I take that point - but it's the opening match of the season against a newly promoted team, hotly tipped to go straight back down; and when you compare our performance to some of the teams we expected to be tussling for position with, we look miles off. The losing teams from all televised matches this weekend would have smashed us to bits.

Anyhow - well played London - they planned and executed really well.