Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:29 pm  

vastman wrote:

So you want to stay like this forever and return to the dark ages?

I understand your concern but a line has to be drawn. Not every life can be protected, we are all going to die, the virus now has to run its course even if that means more death. We at least know we now have numerous vaccines that can cope and be improved, the truth is from now on Covid will have to be treated like the flu, and with that will come a level of death.

I'm vulnerable and two family members are so I'm not being glib, but we can't go on like this.

My sentiments exactly

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:50 pm  

vastman wrote:

Stopping the economy is a far bigger one.

Sometimes in life, you have to be pragmatic and seize the day, it's what made this nation, and that has to include a level of sacrifice.

Now I'm not suggesting Somme levels here but with the current case to death ratio lockdown cannot be justified. Even if it went up pro-rata to infections it still couldn't.

By seizing the day I mean this. Whether you think Boris is a lucky clown, or you are anti-Brexit etc, the UK is now the best positioned country in Europe and perhaps the world to make a strong economic recovery. This is not a political opinion it's just how it's turned out, whether by luck or judgement Boris has hit gold with the vaccines and it would be criminal to waste it.

I'm not a fan of the EU and I was never convinced leaving would be a disaster but now we have a chance to make good any losses far more easily than we might otherwise have done. It's not great that thousands died and that this may well make a prize clown look like Churchill to some but it would be incredibly churlish and counterproductive as a nation to let that get in our way.

It's sink or swim for the UK and we may have just been thrown a life belt.

So sorry but for me, it's no gamble, it's a necessity.

Is it really "sink or swim" and if so, why is the UK the only nation that is taking this particular route ?
Also, our new Health Secretary is suggesting that we will see 100,000 new cases every day.
Even with very small percentages ending up in hospital and dying, is this the right approach - as I say, only the UK has gone for the schmidt or bust, risk everything on red approach.
After 15 months of restrictions, the "now or never claim" seems bloody ludicrous, it clearly isn't now or never.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:59 pm  

Will be interesting to see if the clubs want fans double jabbed to go to games. Boris has already made the next step by removing isolation rules for people who have had both Jabs. Think it’s only a matter of time before some restrictions come in that may involve watching sport.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:22 pm  

supercat wrote:

Will be interesting to see if the clubs want fans double jabbed to go to games. Boris has already made the next step by removing isolation rules for people who have had both Jabs. Think it’s only a matter of time before some restrictions come in that may involve watching sport.

Nah, it's all open now (well in 10 days time).

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:36 pm  

[quote="wrencat1873"]Is it really "sink or swim" and if so, why is the UK the only nation that is taking this particular route ?
Also, our new Health Secretary is suggesting that we will see 100,000 new cases every day.
Even with very small percentages ending up in hospital and dying, is this the right approach - as I say, only the UK has gone for the schmidt or bust, risk everything on red approach.
After 15 months of restrictions, the "now or never claim" seems bloody ludicrous, it clearly isn't now or never.[/quote]

It clearly is, you do understand basic economics. Ludicrous is shutting the country down for lower death rates than the flu. This is not a game, a crash will follow and we need to be back in business before anyone else especially the EU who are useless imho. Thought you might have worked that out due to the vaccine success, why waste it for christ sake.

Who said s or bust its just common sense as the figures now add up, Boris is many things but even he isn't that stupid as to miss the boat on this one.

Maybe just for once accept that something has gone in our favour and we are right and we have to be brave, instead of hiding from reality as you seem to be.

It will survival of the fittest imo, if you can't see that I think you're in for a very rude awakening.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:21 pm  

[quote="vastman"]

Hiding ? You're having a laugh, aren't you.

I accept and am delighted with the vaccine roll out and was jabbed just as quickly as I was allowed

What I am really struggling with is the prospect of 100,000 cases per day (as quoted by the new health minister.

Whilst accepting that hospitalisations and thankfully deaths are massively down, with 100,000 cases per day, what on earth will happen to the hospitalisations and deaths.

That number of cases would be 3 to 4 times the previous peak and although the death rate is significantly lower, there is likely to be chaos and this will be as we enter the busier winter months for hospitals.

As for Johnson, of course he's desperate to get the economy rolling and some money into the government coffers.

Cases are already up to 25,000+ per day (and rising) and this is before all hell breaks loose.

Interesting when you talk about "wasting the vaccine success", which is why we should keep unlocking in stages.
If the virus mutates, because of significantly higher numbers of infections, the vaccine will be less effective and at this point, we really will have "wasted the vaccine".

Personally, I'm fairly relaxed, having been pretty healthy all my life so, I'm certainly not hiding.

This looks like one hell of a desperate last throw of the dice, with all reason and following the science, gone in a flash.

Lets hope that a man not known for telling the truth, has got this HUGE call somewhere near right, for all of our sakes.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:56 pm  

Yes, we have to find a way of living with Covid and have to keep moving in that direction. I think a couple of steps along the way may have been prudent. I agree that there should be personal responsibility but normally the results of a lack of responsibility would rest upon the irresponsible person. With mask wearing that unfortunately isn't the case. The mask protects others not the wearer. So person A doesn't feel like wearing a mask and person B catches Covid, then the results of A's "irresponsibility" are borne by B.

Personally I would have kept mask wearing on public transport and inside. Staff working in these environments should be able to feel reasonably safe. If after another period of time everything was OK then relax the mask wearing. It's going to be much harder to bring it back in if it's needed.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:21 pm  

sandcat20 wrote:

Yes, we have to find a way of living with Covid and have to keep moving in that direction. I think a couple of steps along the way may have been prudent. I agree that there should be personal responsibility but normally the results of a lack of responsibility would rest upon the irresponsible person. With mask wearing that unfortunately isn't the case. The mask protects others not the wearer. So person A doesn't feel like wearing a mask and person B catches Covid, then the results of A's "irresponsibility" are borne by B.

Personally I would have kept mask wearing on public transport and inside. Staff working in these environments should be able to feel reasonably safe. If after another period of time everything was OK then relax the mask wearing. It's going to be much harder to bring it back in if it's needed.

I hear many people calling for mask wearing to be mandatory, yet many of those people object to making vaccinations compulsory. They can’t have it both way, if vaccinations are a personal choice, then mask wearing should be.

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Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:22 pm  

vastman wrote:

So you want to stay like this forever and return to the dark ages?

I understand your concern but a line has to be drawn. Not every life can be protected, we are all going to die, the virus now has to run its course even if that means more death. We at least know we now have numerous vaccines that can cope and be improved, the truth is from now on Covid will have to be treated like the flu, and with that will come a level of death.

I'm vulnerable and two family members are so I'm not being glib, but we can't go on like this.

The point is, every (or a major proportion) can be protected.
It was never about whether covid would spread. It is about whether we can handle it.
last year we couldn't. People were vulnerable and NHS couldn't handle the numbers

Now many are vaccinated, major numbers are not vulnerable and those that are can potentially be handled by the NHS, so death rate is massively reduced.
Its just lowered the risk to a manageable level.......so worth opening up the economy.

Economy wise, it isn't going to be plain sailing. For UK it will be great as we all spend our money in our local shops. Internationally, Europe and rest of the world could still cut us off if they are not ready. But starting up first gives us a great opportunity.

[PopTart]

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:24 pm  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

I hear many people calling for mask wearing to be mandatory, yet many of those people object to making vaccinations compulsory. They can’t have it both way, if vaccinations are a personal choice, then mask wearing should be.

I was pro both but mask and vaccines are hardly the same. Vaccine is permanent. Mask is for Asda.

I can see me still wearing a mask in some places if I think it looks necessary. I never had a problem with masks............in fact, people say I look better with one