Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:03 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Both the RL side and Football side have dropped down in standard from where they were in the 80's which led to the football side going pop and the RL side moving in to their ground.
Also due to their struggles, the ground took some while to complete.

Ultimately, both of them need some on field progress to win back some fans and then prosper in what are now decent facilities.

Like you, I can remember Halifax being a decent, well supported side and on the RL side they may well be a victim of the "franchise years".
Fax were a little unlucky not to get a spot in SL (although this could have been at our expense had they got in) and languishing in the 2nd tier is never going to allow them to draw in decent crowds.

There is certainly potential there but, our sport seems hell bent on culling the number of pro clubs, rather than encouraging a more diverse and vibrant sport.

Spot on, I'm not anti-expansion but you don't do it by destroying the core clubs. You built outwards, you don't knock down and replace.

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:20 am  

1315trinity wrote:

It's a pity there can't be a SL1 and SL2, properly structured and financed the same to include such clubs as Halifax, Widnes, Bradford, (all of who have had in the fairly recent past better crowd pull than us) and Featherstone.
I think that's a better way forward than creating a smaller elite SL and sod the rest.

It's probably the answer, to be honest. Two leagues, the top four from each playoff for the title at the end. You get more clubs, more revenue (though less TV, or at least for now), more chances for fans to support clubs who then have a reasonable chance of promotion to one of the leagues. Finally, the GF isn't just a final, it's a clash of cultures, Yorkshire plus mates v Lancs plus mates, a kind of War of the Roses, and a test for all the players, including overseas as to who plays in the best league. The idea of real competition and excitement seems to elude those in charge but that's what really excites fans.

We've probably got enough teams to make two divisions of 10, each with a French team and a development team. So something like this?

SL: East

Leeds
Hull
HKR
Wakefield
Cas
Bradford
York
Featherstone
Toulouse
Newcastle

I mean just look at the derbies for a start!

SL: West

Wigan
Saints
Warrington
Widnes
Salford
Leigh
Hudds
Halifax
Catalan
Wales

I know technically Fax and Hudds are Yorkshire but for balance, it works.

[PopTart]

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:19 am  

You are just spreading the money from Sky across more clubs therefore less each.
This will just make a poorer group at the top.

Leeds for example, will no longer have big game income as all the other big sides are in the other league.

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:29 am  

PopTart wrote:

You are just spreading the money from Sky across more clubs therefore less each.
This will just make a poorer group at the top.

Leeds for example, will no longer have big game income as all the other big sides are in the other league.

Perhaps, but I’m sure the Bradford fans will tell us all that, their traveling army of fans will make up the lost revenue of not playing the current SL top clubs. In their dreams perhaps

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:36 am  

Well as has been said before. A certain RFL person took them to the brink before being offered a nice closet job at red hall where he pretty much did the same to the governing body imho.
I lived in fax at that time and why a lot of support left the club was due to a lot of younger fans were pulled in by bull mainier and started going there. And now are completely lost to RL as they became glory supporters.
Now fax are a bit like us probably just short of a fairy godfather with deep pockets to kick back to being a good big team again. Until then they are just keeping the purse strings tight with their heads just above water.

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:52 am  

vastman wrote:

It's probably the answer, to be honest. Two leagues, the top four from each playoff for the title at the end. You get more clubs, more revenue (though less TV, or at least for now), more chances for fans to support clubs who then have a reasonable chance of promotion to one of the leagues. Finally, the GF isn't just a final, it's a clash of cultures, Yorkshire plus mates v Lancs plus mates, a kind of War of the Roses, and a test for all the players, including overseas as to who plays in the best league. The idea of real competition and excitement seems to elude those in charge but that's what really excites fans.

We've probably got enough teams to make two divisions of 10, each with a French team and a development team. So something like this?

SL: East

Leeds
Hull
HKR
Wakefield
Cas
Bradford
York
Featherstone
Toulouse
Newcastle

I mean just look at the derbies for a start!

SL: West

Wigan
Saints
Warrington
Widnes
Salford
Leigh
Hudds
Halifax
Catalan
Wales

I know technically Fax and Hudds are Yorkshire but for balance, it works.

I was thinking something like that. I think it would rekindle interest in the game - more widespread than it is now . Surely the derbies, as you point out would be tempting for Sky to pump a bit more into the game?
I wander if anyone has ever considered something like this to try and get more from Sky ? - they'd be getting more varied games than they presently are with more clubs involved.

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:56 am  

PopTart wrote:

You are just spreading the money from Sky across more clubs therefore less each.
This will just make a poorer group at the top.

Leeds for example, will no longer have big game income as all the other big sides are in the other league.

I get what you're saying PT but the Leeds/Bradford derby match back?
I've said elsewhere if it was thoughfully structured Sky may be persuaded to pump a bit more in - just a thought!

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:59 am  

PopTart wrote:

You are just spreading the money from Sky across more clubs therefore less each.
This will just make a poorer group at the top.

Leeds for example, will no longer have big game income as all the other big sides are in the other league.

Correct.

But we can't rely on TV money, it will only get less. We need to fill the ground with fans, especially the travelling fans.

Tough on Leeds. We will have a more competitive league and then a playoff where really big games can happen, Flippin heck PT are Cas, Hull and perhaps a rejuvenated Bradford more than adequate even for the mighty Leeds.

The truth is the current SL model is an abject failure now, the world has changed. We need to reignite the game and maximize existing income.

It's a bit like the album in the music industry, it like TV was where the money was, now it's in gigs or in our case matches, live events are the money makers. Yes, we need the SKY money but we need full grounds and a vibrant competition far more because if you want to keep the SKY money let alone increase it then that's is what SKY wants.

SKY or whoever doesn't want to see empty stadiums like the pathetic turnout for Wigan v HKR, we are currently in a massive decline when our most famous club gets less for a playoff match than most Women's Football SL matches get for an average fixture these days. Nobody is interested in a failed sport and that is what we are at present.

I may be wrong but what you are preaching is IMHO most definitely not the answer, its is the recipe for a not so slow death for the sport.

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:17 am  

vastman wrote:

It's probably the answer, to be honest. Two leagues, the top four from each playoff for the title at the end. You get more clubs, more revenue (though less TV, or at least for now), more chances for fans to support clubs who then have a reasonable chance of promotion to one of the leagues. Finally, the GF isn't just a final, it's a clash of cultures, Yorkshire plus mates v Lancs plus mates, a kind of War of the Roses, and a test for all the players, including overseas as to who plays in the best league. The idea of real competition and excitement seems to elude those in charge but that's what really excites fans.

We've probably got enough teams to make two divisions of 10, each with a French team and a development team. So something like this?

SL: East

Leeds
Hull
HKR
Wakefield
Cas
Bradford
York
Featherstone
Toulouse
Newcastle

I mean just look at the derbies for a start!

SL: West

Wigan
Saints
Warrington
Widnes
Salford
Leigh
Hudds
Halifax
Catalan
Wales

I know technically Fax and Hudds are Yorkshire but for balance, it works.

Aside from the visit to and from the "expansion" sides (Toulouse and Newcastle), it would be reasonable to expecct a higher number of fans to travel to away games and this does on the face of it, seem a better proposition than just having a 10 club SL.
Also, the play offs should have some extra "spice" as the clubs may not have played one another all season.

However, the elephant in the room is TV cash, which would be massively diluted.
Plus, as the season developed, support for the sides at the lower end of each "confrence", would inevitably drop away, just as it does currently and there is also a risk of some blow out score lines. In addition to this, there is a shortage of SL quality players and the likelihood of fewer youngsters coming through, due to heavily reduced numbers wanting to play contact sports post covid - I think this could be a major challenge for the next few years for both codes of rugby.

Re: Wonder why? : Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:58 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Aside from the visit to and from the "expansion" sides (Toulouse and Newcastle), it would be reasonable to expecct a higher number of fans to travel to away games and this does on the face of it, seem a better proposition than just having a 10 club SL.
Also, the play offs should have some extra "spice" as the clubs may not have played one another all season.

However, the elephant in the room is TV cash, which would be massively diluted.
Plus, as the season developed, support for the sides at the lower end of each "confrence", would inevitably drop away, just as it does currently and there is also a risk of some blow out score lines. In addition to this, there is a shortage of SL quality players and the likelihood of fewer youngsters coming through, due to heavily reduced numbers wanting to play contact sports post covid - I think this could be a major challenge for the next few years for both codes of rugby.

This is just an idea that is being thrown around at the moment, and money is, as you say the problem. Would Sky give more for what I think would be a more exciting league structure?
As for player shortage it may mean initially some clubs struggling but if it was persevered with it can only lead to better homegrown player .quality.