Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 10:36 am  

DAVE@CAS1990 wrote:

Owen and Kay are separate entities really - one is established at SL level the other very much a prospect.

The recent history of Wakefield's "prospects" however has been relatively bleak, and considering this is a massive season for WTW, you'd take a proven player on an "end of the season" deal every day of the week.

And I stand making myself a little unpopular but, it's no good harping on about Liam Kay. He's gone. End of.

I don't normally agree with Cas fans but, you are on the money with this one Dave.
The one major plus with franchising/licensing was that it gave clubs a better opportunity to try youngsters, without the risk of affecting either play off aspirations or the threat of relegation.
The lower half of SL will revert to imports and journeyman pros, instead of developing juniors, it was always the way previously and so it will be again.
Any club under threat of relegation will go for experience over youth.

Of course, for the top 5/6 clubs, they will still have enough quality in their squads to allow their youngsters to be given the chance of playing SL and therefore gain further long term advantage over their rivals.

Super League will remain split, with those assured of top 8 rugby and those battling it out at the bottom, with the annual "relegation league" (middle , to look forward to.

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 11:30 am  

The Avenger wrote:

If it's just SL experience we're looking for then stick with Fox as he's very similar to Owen.

Except that Fox is approaching the end of his career and is far from the threat he once was.

The topic isn't so much about Liam Kaye as it is about how we spend our money and the decision making behind it!

I don't disagree - that always needs to be scrutinised; but at the time Kay's agent made an unreasonable salary demand for an unproven youngster, we were on the bones of our backsides; now, less so. Reflecting on decisions is good, but it's not much good without context.

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 12:05 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Except that Fox is approaching the end of his career and is far from the threat he once was.

As it stands at present Owen is signed for what remains of the 2014 season, we already have Fox for that period, I doubt within the next 5 months that their relative ages will be a factor. If we were doling out a 3 year contract I'd agree that Owen prevails over Fox because of age.

bren2k wrote:

I don't disagree - that always needs to be scrutinised; but at the time Kay's agent made an unreasonable salary demand for an unproven youngster, we were on the bones of our backsides; now, less so. Reflecting on decisions is good, but it's not much good without context.

Was it so unreasonable or has it been spun that way a little, as I posted earlier it's easy to interpret opening offers as unreasonable and portray both as such without it being untrue. Both Wakefields initial offer and Kayes initial demands are more than likely to have been opening figures in a negotiation, in reality both parties were probably just a few grand apart in their valuations, I doubt that Leigh are paying Liam Kaye 4 x what we offered.

Kaye was on a well trodden path that has seen many young players become quality additions to 1st teams, I'll give you David Topliss who progressed through the system into the 'A' Team (equivelent to Duel Registration) he made his early appearances in the full Wakefield Trinity team as a winger where he learned to cope with the higher demands, he then started to move into the middle where he eventually took up his natural position of stand off, the rest is history.

It's easy to dismiss my argument as reflective or hindsight but a higher degree of decision making should have been present at the time and because it wasn't we let a good prospect slip away, of course all in my opinion.

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 3:02 pm  

Kay was offered 30k a year and a community job at Leigh can't blame him for going there he was on 8 at Wakefield I'm sure his agent wasn't being over greedy but some might feel differently

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 5:29 pm  

try scorer wrote:

Kay was offered 30k a year and a community job at Leigh can't blame him for going there he was on 8 at Wakefield I'm sure his agent wasn't being over greedy but some might feel differently

I seem to remember MC saying that Kay was offered considerably more than the 8 you mention, plus 'extras' but he declined it.

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 5:59 pm  

Who cares, hes gone end of.

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 6:07 pm  

What I said Kay was on 8k believe what ever you want what carter said he was on that for about 3seasons, don't think wake fields offer was anywhere near than Leighs ,I'm sure liams happy where he is but don't gimme the argument they made a serious attempt to keep him rightly or wrongly they didn't

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 7:17 pm  

Weswood,Ellis,Poaching,Amor,Smith,Aiton,Brough,Grix,Murphy,Ferguson......the list can go on and on.Liam is just another Wakey player that's moved on for more money.Wakey will allways be a selling club to the big boys who have a supposedly top youth set up?????Until we get a multi millionaire backer who is able to pay top wages to keep our youngsters then they will move on.Loyalty will only keep them at Wakey and those are the players I want to see in the red white and blue at the end of the day,too many youngsters are influenced by others who think they know better,I think some post on here.Time will tell,but I think in 2,3 even 4 years down the line,if these kids choose Wakey,the future looks bright.

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 8:15 pm  

No problem with your views big lad, what I've a problem with is folk on here and the club giving the impression that local players Kay is an example are greedy, don't think a lad 21or 22 on 8grand a year can be accused of that,we know in kays case its in the past but as I said in a previous post,carters statement that kays agent wanted 4times what he was on doesn't tell the whole story does it whether Wakefield wanted Kay or not is a different matter but to try and put the blame on kays agent when the lad was on a pittance don't wash with me

Re: New Signing : Sat May 17, 2014 8:44 pm  

try scorer wrote:

No problem with your views big lad, what I've a problem with is folk on here and the club giving the impression that local players Kay is an example are greedy, don't think a lad 21or 22 on 8grand a year can be accused of that,we know in kays case its in the past but as I said in a previous post,carters statement that kays agent wanted 4times what he was on doesn't tell the whole story does it whether Wakefield wanted Kay or not is a different matter but to try and put the blame on kays agent when the lad was on a pittance don't wash with me

You say he was on 8, Leigh gave him30+ extras.
4x8 = 32, close enough no ?