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Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:01 am  

MOPSEY LIVES ON wrote:

yes I've watched the interview and he takes the blame, he openly admits he's failed but he also says I've been signing the players for the last 3 years, which is very puzzling and who the hell is having the say so on tje squad for next year is that Carter again. Ultimately our game is results based and what happens on the field is all that matters.

Well right now it's him because no one has taken over but Ellis as you know is on the advisory board and he said in the interview that they are consulting.

Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:23 am  

The worry is that it’s Carter for the last 3 years or more and Applegarth who’ve made this years signings which have been misguided and pretty poor. So if it’s the same two making decisions and 18/19 signings for next season then it’s very worrying on two fronts.
Firstly, they’ve proven to be poor judges of player suitability and have been happy to settle for cheap less than average options.
Secondly, if Applegarth is choosing next years players it strongly indicates that he’ll be the coach again next year

I’m fully aware that we need to have some players signed up for next year but if we’re going to run with a core squad of 22/23 then 18/19 players signed up leaves little room for a real change of playing personnel and having the same coach as well is disheartening to say the least.

Surely if we’re going to change the head coach then you must leave a big part of the player budget for that new coach to choose his players and shape the squad the way he wants it.

Everything is pointing to same again next year

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Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:10 am  

The Avenger wrote:

The worry is that it’s Carter for the last 3 years or more and Applegarth who’ve made this years signings which have been misguided and pretty poor. So if it’s the same two making decisions and 18/19 signings for next season then it’s very worrying on two fronts.
Firstly, they’ve proven to be poor judges of player suitability and have been happy to settle for cheap less than average options.
Secondly, if Applegarth is choosing next years players it strongly indicates that he’ll be the coach again next year

I’m fully aware that we need to have some players signed up for next year but if we’re going to run with a core squad of 22/23 then 18/19 players signed up leaves little room for a real change of playing personnel and having the same coach as well is disheartening to say the least.

Surely if we’re going to change the head coach then you must leave a big part of the player budget for that new coach to choose his players and shape the squad the way he wants it.

Everything is pointing to same again next year

I don't disagree, but who should do it then?

Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:33 am  

PopTart wrote:

I don't disagree, but who should do it then?

the coach should recommend to the board the type of player he wants and how he fits into his system. The board should always reply with, before we do anything is he better than we have got. We've not try to build or restructure the side properly for about 6 years snd nobody as been able to identify what we have needed and just gone here you go do your best with that lot

Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:43 am  

PopTart wrote:

I don't disagree, but who should do it then?

Well before I start, Applegarth shouldn’t be there at all and he should have been replaced months ago!
Carter is and never was a good judge of players, you can’t tell him that though so we’ve ended up with him talking to agents and signing poor players on inflated salaries. We should have had an experienced man in charge of recruitment, call him a Director of Rugby if you want, but someone who has the knowledge, understanding to make highly informed decisions and stature to command respect from agents and players alike. That’s a universal and fundamental prerequisite IMO and we haven’t had that for around a decade.
Also, whatever’s holding up the change of ownership should have been sorted weeks ago, then we could have had the two previously mentioned issues sorted with the right people in place to sort next season out.

However, none of that happened and here we are!
What would I do in the situation were in right now?
The Coaching position needs advertising, let Applegarth apply if he wants but judge him against the other applicants.
I know that means we wouldn’t have a coach insitu and therefore no one to offer direction re player recruitment and retention.
It’s not beyond imagination that the current owners and the potential new owners could agree on and appoint a Director of Rugby who’s acceptable to both parties even before a take over gets completed. Then let that individual get on with the job of recruitment while leaving some room for squad changes once the Coach for next year is in place.

That’s a better route forward, is a more professional approach, would be more effective and is certainly more palatable to the fans than seeing Carter and Applegarth do it again.

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Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:57 am  

I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.

But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.

When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.

Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:02 am  

PopTart wrote:

I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.

But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.

When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.

I honestly don't think there is any need for expenditure on a DOR. If a good coach is appointed he will identify was is needed to build a side, if the resources are there then he's half a chance

Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:04 am  

We’ve already wasted money on keeping Lino, Kay, Pitts and Ashurst who has been a non existent captain for next year.

Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:20 am  

PopTart wrote:

I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.

But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.

When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.

Well I certainly pointed out that removing Poching was a mistake and when Applegarth was mooted as a replacement (without advertising the position) I made my opinion heard on that along with a breakdown of why he wasn’t good enough. I also voiced opinion on some of the new recruits and have been proven right there also. No hindsight here!

Who applied for the job when Poching was appointed, how do we know whether it was low level or not other than what Carter or Minards said. Even if it was low level there are many elements that will decide who applies for a coaching position, who’s free at the time and whether they think it’s the right time to move their families etc but to not even test the waters and ask for applications is quite simply ridiculous in professional sport. There are just 26 top tier coaching positions available in the world for Senior Rugby League Coaches, I refuse to believe that we wouldn’t have found a more suitable candidate than MA. By all means use Applegarth as a caretaker while you field the applications but to not advertise and just appoint an untried, unqualified and inexperienced coach is stupid!
I suspect the owners just went for Chester’s assistant and got a decent Coach in Poching but then didn’t back him against some of the players who didn’t like him. It’s their modus operandi isn’t it, go for the cheap in house option and after Willie Applegarth was even cheaper and had made his intentions known to them by offering himself up behind Poching’s back.

We’ve had a string of poor decision making from giving Chester a new contract, sacking Poching, not advertising the Coaching position, appointing Applegarth, then not making a decision to remove him early in the season when changes would have made a difference.

But you and others have asked what would you do now and I’ve given you an answer, speculating that the new owner might appoint a mate to discredit that answer is poor. The owners/new owners should realise by now that the cheap unprofessional option and way of doing things doesn’t work! Do it properly, advertise the positions of DoR, Head Coach etc and appoint people who are expert in their field and bring the right qualities to the job and the club.

Re: Thank you Mr Applegarth : Sat Sep 16, 2023 10:32 am  

PopTart wrote:

I think that's the point being made.
We can all say in hindsight what shouldn't happen. Some will say they told us all along it shouldn't happen.
I was one of the first to say sacking Poching and appointing Applegarth was a big mistake.

But advertising doesn't solve the problem if no one good applies.
I don't like blind leaps of faith with untried coaches. It has to be someone better.
That applies to DoR as well as coach. If Ellis brings in a mate with no experience then we'll fail again.

When Poching was appointed we got a very low level of applicant. I guess only money will change that.

If you dont advertise and go with "the next in line" how do you know who is out there