Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:00 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Most sides kick deep and try to be sure of who will be bringing the ball out and although we spectacularly failed to deal with this against Warrington for their try straight after ht, this is the norm for most sides, unless its a tight game and then you can expect to see a short kick.
Variation sounds great but, if any side goes for a short kick off or puts one along the ground, the risk is that the opposition start their first set a lot closer to the half way line and there would be even more complaints on here were that to happen.
Our kick offs have got rock all to do with our results and fans only moan about it when we've failed to come up with a miracle play from the kick off.
Either make it a contest or, kick as deep as you can, there isn't too much else that can be done.
Would it make any difference if we kicked left, right or, straight, I dont think so

Nothing to do with results but everything to do with overall mentality.

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:19 pm  

Adam_Harrison9 wrote:

Nothing to do with results but everything to do with overall mentality.

All this moaning about predictable kick offs but, how many sides that we have played have varied their tactics from restarts.
The answer is none.
Some sides do kick the ball better that us, be that from a restart or during the game and I would suggest that neither Miller or Finn are the most powerful kickers in SL.
Our attacking kicks lack height and we tend not to get a lot of hang time but, our restarts aren't any better or worse than the sides that we've played.
As I said in my previous post, Trinity, along with most other sides go for depth and try to defend from there.
Sorry, but our kick offs have nothing to do with the teams mentality and as I said, nobody even mentions it when we win.
It's just another topic to moan about when we lose.

Apart from handling errors and controlling the ball, our biggest problem at Salford and it will be the same at Cas on Friday, will be matching their line speed, both in attack and defence. Our kick offs, as long as we dont kick the ball dead, will be just fine.

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:15 pm  

I would even be tempted to add in last tackle kicks to this.

When kicking from deep we very rarely find touch or turn opponents around, and therefore defensive tackle counts start much nearer our line than hoped.

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:52 pm  

Eastern Wildcat wrote:

I would even be tempted to add in last tackle kicks to this.

When kicking from deep we very rarely find touch or turn opponents around, and therefore defensive tackle counts start much nearer our line than hoped.

Now, last tackle kicks, I agree with and they're far more important than re starts.
You either need to kick for field position or challenge for the ball (either with a chip, bomb or grubber) and we are very poor in this area.
How many repeat sets do we get and how many times do we score from kick plays ?

I know which I'd be spending time practicing.

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:49 pm  

I suppose the trick is to only kick off once in a game!!!! I have to say that loads of people in the north stand against St. Helens thought our kicks going to Lomax every time was a bit stupid. Are you really telling me we can't at least kick it somewhere else instead of straight to a bloke whose job it is to catch balls? (I refer to the number on his shirt not the position he is currently playing).

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:35 am  

Not sure I understand the logic of the argument most other teams in the league do the same kick off as justification for going long left every time.
Every team in the league sets up in the same manner, leaving a massive hole in the centre of the pitch. Let’s dink one into there with a bit of back spin and get our pace men haring after it. Or the amount of times players leave the touch unguarded to wonder back toward where they perceive the ball to be going, lets torpedo one into that gap.
Rugby is all about playing what is in front of you and adapting to the game situation. I’m not saying let’s do different kick offs every time, but I fully agree that kicking to the same place every time is ridiculous.

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:57 am  

4foxsake wrote:

Not sure I understand the logic of the argument most other teams in the league do the same kick off as justification for going long left every time.
Every team in the league sets up in the same manner, leaving a massive hole in the centre of the pitch. Let’s dink one into there with a bit of back spin and get our pace men haring after it. Or the amount of times players leave the touch unguarded to wonder back toward where they perceive the ball to be going, lets torpedo one into that gap.
Rugby is all about playing what is in front of you and adapting to the game situation. I’m not saying let’s do different kick offs every time, but I fully agree that kicking to the same place every time is ridiculous.

Great argument
How many will be on here moaning when the first carry by the opposition collect the ball and start their set on their 40 metre or half way.
The reason that "every" side.kicks long is because it's the "easiest" to defend and protect those precious metres.
If you can sneak an odd short kick of thats great but, most sides play percentages and having the opposition start their set their own 20 wins the day.
Is every Aussie coach wrong as well or is it just a few disappointed Trinity fans when we are behind on the scoreboard.

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:07 am  

4foxsake wrote:

Every team in the league sets up in the same manner, leaving a massive hole in the centre of the pitch. Let’s dink one into there with a bit of back spin and get our pace men haring after it.

Yes lets do that - and leave massive gaps out wide that is vulnerable to a shift play?

As someone else has already alluded to, RL is a percentage game - so most teams on most occasions will execute a 'safe' kick off, forcing attackers to run from deep, at a set and organised defensive line; it's easier to defend in a way that is predictable and expected. And also why you only see short kick offs or other creative options when a team is chasing a game and have become desperate for possession.

Last play kicks I do agree with however - we could do better; Luke Gale is by some margin the best in SL at that particular skill.

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:23 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Great argument
How many will be on here moaning when the first carry by the opposition collect the ball and start their set on their 40 metre or half way.
The reason that "every" side.kicks long is because it's the "easiest" to defend and protect those precious metres.
If you can sneak an odd short kick of thats great but, most sides play percentages and having the opposition start their set their own 20 wins the day.
Is every Aussie coach wrong as well or is it just a few disappointed Trinity fans when we are behind on the scoreboard.

That's all well and good Wren, but when our defense is so weak and we allow the opposition at least 10 metres in every tackle (which we usually do) that puts the opposition uncomfortably back in our own 20m after 5 0r 6 tackles, where our defense is generally even weaker still,

Re: Our kick offs are PATHETIC : Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:32 am  

Redscat wrote:

That's all well and good Wren, but when our defense is so weak and we allow the opposition at least 10 metres in every tackle (which we usually do) that puts the opposition uncomfortably back in our own 20m after 5 0r 6 tackles, where our defense is generally even weaker still,

Which is still better than allowing the opposition to start their set on their 40 or on halfway, against our "weak defence".

Are you saying now that Trinity are so poor that we need to gamble on each re start as we may not be able to defend ??

As I said earlier in this thread, the "must change the kick off" only gets trotted out after a defeat.
Strangely, when we are on top in a game, the deep kick off is also the correct option as it give us more chance to put some work into the opposition as they return the ball.

Anyone who was at the Dewsbury game pre season will have seen some excellent variation from re starts but, with mixed results.
They managed to put a low kick into touch and gain a scrum but, they also gave cheap possession to Trinity.
What some are advocating here is the equivalent of the "hail mary" plays that you see in the NFL when sides are desperate at the end of a half and we should be confident enough in our defence to kick deep and "work" the opposition.
Plus, if they knock on near their own line, we get a great chance to score from the next play