Re: Wilkins : Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:59 pm  

Redscat wrote:

Two of the biggest whingers (not wingers) in Super League have been Wilkins and his Saints cohort Wellens.

Wellens bird impressions were legendary

Re: Wilkins : Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 pm  

Stench of entitlement from anyone involved with Toronto just stinks the place out. No surprise this type of nonsense is coming from a man who spends his life in tanning salons.

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:55 am  

i just dont understand why some people including some members of the RFL, journalists who write for League Express , Forty 20 magazine wallies who do some of the rugby podcasts etc , want to see a Super League made up of teams with names like Toronto, New York Ottawa etc who havent a single american/canadian in them, no avadamy , no local leagues, flown in to places where it is too cold to play half the year in front of crowds who have been given free tickets and are only there for the beer watching super league has beens like Wilkins and second rate Aussies rather than teams like Wakefield, Castleford Feathersone , leigh, Barrow, Whitehaven etc who are the heart of there local communities and the birthplace of the game.

l

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:14 am  

ball-in-hand wrote:

i just dont understand why some people including some members of the RFL, journalists who write for League Express , Forty 20 magazine wallies who do some of the rugby podcasts etc , want to see a Super League made up of teams with names like Toronto, New York Ottawa etc who havent a single american/canadian in them, no avadamy , no local leagues, flown in to places where it is too cold to play half the year in front of crowds who have been given free tickets and are only there for the beer watching super league has beens like Wilkins and second rate Aussies rather than teams like Wakefield, Castleford Feathersone , leigh, Barrow, Whitehaven etc who are the heart of there local communities and the birthplace of the game.

l

It's all about the money.
RL is torn between protecting it's core audience (as you describe) and needing new fans, players and investment.
If we cant break out of the heartland's, we face a slow lingering death.
However, the answer isn't just to have a headline name (like Toronto) with no roots and no real connection to the sport.

The brutal reality is that there arent enough hardcore supporters to sustain a top level professional sport and we do have to find a way to attract new/more people into the game, at every level.

If you look at London, for instance, despite their nomadic status, RL started with the headline club and then built around it but, it took 20+ years before their were any "southerners" breaking into their side and it will take a similar amount of time for any other "new" club.
It's a classic catch 22

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:28 am  

Places like Cas, Fev, and Wakey (to a smaller degree) are not expanding towns with increasing numbers of people moving to them, being exposed to RL for the first time and becoming fans of teams in those places. More often, you either have people who are from the area and stay there (so a captive market) or people from there / fans of those teams who move elsewhere and may / may not come back for games.

I live in Ponte and if I go 7 miles one way from my house I pass the turn off for Fev's ground and go past Wakey's too. If I go 4 miles the other way I get to Cas' ground. It is a saturated market RL wise and the towns are not ballooning in population. So I get where he is coming from. I am a Leeds fan but am from elsewhere in the country, outside the 'M62 corridor' and support Leeds because I moved for uni there 15-20 years ago and they were the nearest team. I have only been to Cas and Wakey to watch Leeds play there and have no particular desire to watch games at either otherwise.

I think the game needs to be played in and have teams in bigger cities but what he says does make sense - teams will vote for what benefits them the most. Similar to how people vote for parties / MPs whose policies will benefit themselves more than others. Small teams based in smaller towns and cities a few miles apart in a saturated market place are at increasing risk of being adversely impacted by any new expansion or development plans so are increasingly likely to vote it down. It helps them as a club in the short (and maybe mid) term but ultimately limits opportunity for the game in the mid and long term.

You can see similar in the football leagues last season and the votes on how they should be ended - most voted in a way that would benefit their club rather than the league and competition as a whole. This is not wrong per se, but when a lot of clubs have similar growth development issues (either the size of their town/city, the distance of rival teams and future town development) it means that the plodders end up having more power collectively than the challengers will.

Canada was definitely a wrong choice - equivalent to getting a 6 bed, artisan detached house as your first home rather than aiming for something more viable and expansionist but realistic - setting up a presence in places like Liverpool, Birmingham, Nottingham or focusing on developing further in Newcastle, York, or London or potentially even Toulouse if you want to be further optimistic and developmental.

Clubs having a direct influence on the development of the game that also impacts on their development brings a conflict of interest. Unfortunately for the game and its chiefs, they either are best making those decisions itself, or if it wants the clubs to have direct say, hand the league's organisation and development over to them to self-manage. At the moment the set up provides a worst of both worlds and actually this is holding it back more than it is developing it.

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:43 am  

You are wrong about Wakefield District population growth Jamie. In fact the district has in the last few years expanded more than at any time since the 90s.More people are actually moving into the district than leaving.The population of the district has now reached almost 350000 and the city itself now is now well on its way to being over 100000.

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:50 am  

That is good but the issue is still that they might end up supporting Cas, Wakefield, Fev Rovers or any of the more amateur clubs depending on whereabouts they move. I guess I was focusing more on the city of Wakefield rather than the council / district. Wakefield as a club (and Cas / Fev) could definitely look to do more with WMDC to get younger / new people to the area more aware and engaged with the clubs. Obviously not at present but when C/V does one. Thanks for the stats though pamsboy

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:50 am  

I am curious on the non-expanding town/city point? Over the last 12 months Wakefield has seen the biggest increase in new housing and Wakefield district has seen it`s largest population rise in 25 years, on a larger scale in terms of % than any other city or town with a SL team. We have the 5th fasting growing economy in the UK according the Centre for Economics as well in terms of new businesses finding a home in our city and employment rate increase.

The point on distance between grounds is irrelevant really isn't it? Unless you use the argument for every other club in the league bar Catalan? Wakefield and Castleford are around 9 miles apart, Wigan and Saints are 9 miles apart, Saints and Wire are 9 miles apart, Hull KR and Hull FC are about 6 miles apart. With Wigan, Leigh, Saints, Widnes, Warrington, Salford you have a similar distance with the likes of Wakefield, Cas, Leeds, Hudds, Bradford - Just wondering why you pick Wakefield out in that?

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:53 am  

pamsboy wrote:

You are wrong about Wakefield District population growth Jamie. In fact the district has in the last few years expanded more than at any time since the 90s.More people are actually moving into the district than leaving.The population of the district has now reached almost 350000 and the city itself now is now well on its way to being over 100000.

And looking for University status, although, I think it would be allied with Huddersfield ?

I agree that N. America was the wrong choice, not necessarily as somewhere to try and expand the game but, definitely as a new area in which to locate a SL club.
It was wrong at the time and looks even worse now.
The game should spread slowly from it's core with decent organic growth.
However, if this was ever the plan, places like Sheffield and maybe, even Nottingham, should have been given some help - to ensure that the game could grow in these areas.

RL is always looking for a quick fix or magic silver bullet and despite endless failed ventures, "we" just don't learn.
Yes, we could do with some more razzamatazz but, the cold facts are, that football and Union are streets ahead of RL.
Therefore, we have to go for slow, steady but, planned growth and not "moon shots".

Re: Wilkins : Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:18 pm  

We made it onto CNN with a picture of BJB running down the wing against Leeds at little old Belle Vue. We at least managed to push the game recognition in North America.