Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:51 pm  

vastman wrote:

So you want to stay like this forever and return to the dark ages?

I understand your concern but a line has to be drawn. Not every life can be protected, we are all going to die, the virus now has to run its course even if that means more death. We at least know we now have numerous vaccines that can cope and be improved, the truth is from now on Covid will have to be treated like the flu, and with that will come a level of death.

I'm vulnerable and two family members are so I'm not being glib, but we can't go on like this.

Not at all, but it's not 'all or nothing'. The economy can get pretty much back to normal while still mitigating the spread of the virus. Retaining mask wearing in certain indoor public spaces and transport to protect staff and retaining registration at public venues to enable monitoring of the spread would not prevent economic activity.
'Back to business as usual' is a political decision and this government has got form for being slow to react when things start going wrong. I'm not saying things will get out of hand, but it is possible and Boris & friends will be reluctant to return to any form of limitation once they are lifted. Whilst the infection rate is so high, it seems unnecessary and reckless to remove all checks & balances in one fell swoop.
Will other countries limit the movement of Brits if the case rate is out of control? Even if we're mostly vaccinated, other countries are still vulnerable.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:56 pm  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

I hear many people calling for mask wearing to be mandatory, yet many of those people object to making vaccinations compulsory. They can’t have it both way, if vaccinations are a personal choice, then mask wearing should be.

Show me some evidence that many of the people who object to compulsory vaccination are calling for mask wearing to be compulsory. I think you’ve made that up.
Sandcat’s right - there should be some loosening of restrictions but wearing a mask in shops and on public transport is no big deal and should stay mandatory for the time being. People can choose to go in a crowded pub, theatre or nightclub but many don’t have the choice when it comes to shopping and transport.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:44 pm  

Kevs Head wrote:

Show me some evidence that many of the people who object to compulsory vaccination are calling for mask wearing to be compulsory. I think you’ve made that up.
Sandcat’s right - there should be some loosening of restrictions but wearing a mask in shops and on public transport is no big deal and should stay mandatory for the time being. People can choose to go in a crowded pub, theatre or nightclub but many don’t have the choice when it comes to shopping and transport.

You can’t listen to the news without hearing politicians, Trade union, human rights civil rights leaders of BAME communities all objecting to compulsory vaccines, no sooner had Borris finished his press conference last night, we had Sir Keir Starmer, denouncing personal choice for masks soon followed by the rest of the none compulsory vacation supporters. Just let people make their own decisions, we’ve had nearly 18 months of restrictions, yes the Covid cases are rising, but thankfully the death rate is not. It won’t be long before herd immunity is achieved.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:11 pm  

So you have no evidence to back up your ludicrous assertion.
“Just let people make their own decisions”. The problem is that decisions you make may not affect you but might effect someone else. You don’t let people make their own decisions about the speed they drive so why make keeping people safe from Covid infection a personal choice?

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:42 pm  

The mandatory wearing of masks just makes sense, it does not impact on an individual’s freedoms but protects other from contacting Covid. We currently have over 28,000 daily new cases with a possibility of this increasing to 100,000 after the 19th. The current variation at that level will increase hospitalisations and deaths but probably whatever these are it will be acceptable for the freedom of not wearing a mask.
The unknown is that as the number of cases increases so does the risk of a new variation, this may not be controlled by current vaccinations.
The question is would you rather wear a mask and reduce the numbers and the possibility of creating a new variation or take Boris’s gamble and throw them away. He appears to have forgone data for dates.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:22 pm  

Back to full capacity. eh?? Mmmmm! I wonder how many times during the rest of the season clubs will actually experience this. Sad to say I can't see the crowds at BV being much higher than what we've seen so far. I've spoken to previous seasoned fans who have shown apathy as to whether they will be coming back or not.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:28 pm  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

The mandatory wearing of masks just makes sense, it does not impact on an individual’s freedoms but protects other from contacting Covid. We currently have over 28,000 daily new cases with a possibility of this increasing to 100,000 after the 19th. The current variation at that level will increase hospitalisations and deaths but probably whatever these are it will be acceptable for the freedom of not wearing a mask.
The unknown is that as the number of cases increases so does the risk of a new variation, this may not be controlled by current vaccinations.
The question is would you rather wear a mask and reduce the numbers and the possibility of creating a new variation or take Boris’s gamble and throw them away. He appears to have forgone data for dates.

"normal" face masks do not prevent you from being at risk. they are useful for about 15 minutes.
The only masks to protect you would be an FFP3 or FFP2 mask.
The link between infection, hospitalisation and death has been broken by vaccines - slow increase in hospitalisation in relation to higher infections - flat line of deaths in relation to hospitalisations.
This then in turn will be broken by herd immunity.
This is the time to get back to normal. No point in waiting till Sept/Oct as that is the beginning of the flu season (remember flu - it disappeared of the face of the earth from Sept 2020-March 2021)
If people want to wear a mask, that's OK with me - but I wont be wearing one.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:53 pm  

The link between infections, hospitalisations and deaths has not been broken and that is a fact. The problem however is the more cases the more chances of a new variation.

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:22 pm  

BarnsleyGull wrote:

"normal" face masks do not prevent you from being at risk. they are useful for about 15 minutes.
The only masks to protect you would be an FFP3 or FFP2 mask.
The link between infection, hospitalisation and death has been broken by vaccines - slow increase in hospitalisation in relation to higher infections - flat line of deaths in relation to hospitalisations.
This then in turn will be broken by herd immunity.
This is the time to get back to normal. No point in waiting till Sept/Oct as that is the beginning of the flu season (remember flu - it disappeared of the face of the earth from Sept 2020-March 2021)
If people want to wear a mask, that's OK with me - but I wont be wearing one.

I think you'll find normal masks do work, imagine you having covid try spitting wearing a mask you'll find it won't get further than your lips, it's not all about breathing germs in the idea is to restrict passing germs on when you don't know you have it.
I have respect for others when it's required in shops but I do relax in open areas

Re: Full capacity from the 19th : Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:04 pm  

snowie wrote:

I think you'll find normal masks do work, imagine you having covid try spitting wearing a mask you'll find it won't get further than your lips, it's not all about breathing germs in the idea is to restrict passing germs on when you don't know you have it.
I have respect for others when it's required in shops but I do relax in open areas

I didnt say that they didn't "work." I said they were only beneficial for a short time.
Also, you cant spit through your nose - unless I've missed something - but yet there are numerous people wearing them that don't cover their nose with their mask on making them just as useless as not wearing one - even if they do only work for a limited time.
And those that have been wearing a mask have contracted covid - so that point of yours falls down big time.