Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:32 pm  

chissitt wrote:

Not sure of the point your trying to make here, having criticised Miller you've then put forward the names of Hall, Howarth, Jowitt, BJB, and then ruled them out because of their individual short comings, but you'd be tempted to put Tansey in Millers place despite no specific reason for it and then admitting he is not the answer but as you say Howarth is too slow and Hall can't tackle, yet as say Miller can do both.

The point being the style of players they are as opposed to the others mentioned. Miller and Tansey have the same style in the halves, where their game is based around footwork, speed and support play. Whether Tansey would do a better job than Miller is the debate and yes i have my doubts but if Miller continues to under-perform with the ball then it may well be worth trying out to see without having to change the whole system in place. Defensively they are similar, Miller has improved a lot recently recently but remember at times last season he looked like he couldn't tackle a hot dinner let alone anyone else so isn't infallible. Whilst you don't tend to pick a halfback for his defensive quality the have to be able to hold their own and both can to a similar level imho its just the attack that is failing. We have scored just 6 tries in 3 games, 3 of which have been from Howarth running from dummy half from inside the 10 meters. We may need to try something different soon and for me Finn has to stay so Miller is the one under threat. It can be all rendered immaterial though if Miller picks his game up and starts performing over the next couple of weeks.

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:35 pm  

At this moment in time I don't see how Howarth could be any worse an option than Miller. Sure he might be slow but Sykes and Smith weren't exactly quick.

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:01 pm  

imwakefieldtillidie wrote:

If you think it only takes 3 games for a player to prove themselves, then that's your call. When Moore is fit, out of him, Howarth and Sio, who would you leave out?

3 games isn't long enough for a player to prove themselves but it's a pretty good platform to build on.
He's doing the basics right, his tackle count is going up with each game, I don't know what else you want or expect from Howarth?
As for who I would leave out when all three are fit, Howarth has already been given the 'nod' over Sio for the starting role.
Moore will be coming back from injury and will need to start off the bench.
The decision between Sio and Moore is BS's.
So unless Howarth slacks off or gets injured, it's Howarth starting until further notice.
It must disappoint you that your pre season, without a ball being kicked or passed 'scapegoat', is proving your expert eye wrong so far.
I will be back for a mid season assessment, as I think that we will end up going round in circles at the moment.

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:09 pm  

Willzay wrote:

At this moment in time I don't see how Howarth could be any worse an option than Miller. Sure he might be slow but Sykes and Smith weren't exactly quick.

Other than personal reasons why would you want to move Howarth from a position he's doing rather well in at hooker and move him to a position he's apparently not played before just to remove Miller?

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:10 pm  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Howarth never played stand off for us during his first spell, he appeared pretty much exclusively at loose forward. In fact he hasn't (other than maybe a mid-game fill in due to injury) played at stand off for any of his clubs in superleague. He played a little there at junior level for Wigan i believe but moved to the back of the pack where his lack of speed was less noticable. This is not to say he couldn't probably do the job just as well as the rather clueless Miller but for me his best position is at dummy half where he has a good eye for a gap close to the line and his good defensive qualities in the middle of the park make us tough to break down there. He has been good so far so why change that, him and Moore rotating for me would be the best option.

As for stand off, if Miller doesn't come good soon and we need a change then i would be tempted to try Tansey there alongside Finn. He has a good support game and has enough pace which will offset Finns downfall in that department and has played plenty of first team rugby there, albeit not for a while i grant you. I personally don't rate Miller in the halves, for me some of the better rugby he played last year was when he switched to fullback where the extra space seemed to suit him, sadly he seems like a headless chicken at times at stand off. So by way of a change leave Finn to be the organiser and Tansey as the support act and see if it works better.

Rubbish, he's played S/O a few times and I've seen him or does he just state these things fun. I'd love to know where you got the "never" from. Followed every game he's been in have you?

Disagree by all means but don't make up "facts" you can't prove

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:13 pm  

PopTart wrote:

Tansey has proved in pre-season he is not a half back.

I'm happy to progress with Miller. He has done a great job in defence in both organising, sweeping up and one on one tackling.
He had a few runs against Rovers but just couldn't get the space. It will come on the dryer grounds and when our forwards get quick play the ball.
He should stay.

Hall in my opinion has skills, but we would be adding a weak tackler in to the team when we have only just sorted that out.

Howarth I don't mind as cover at SO. I'd rather put him with Miller though so we don't have two slow half backs but I don't think Vasty is wrong. Howarth has the skills, just not the speed.

Is he that slow? I know he's no speedster but I've seen slower halfbacks - Tim Smith springs to mind. I'm not saying your wrong I'm just not sure he is that slow.

[PopTart]

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:15 pm  

vastman wrote:

Is he that slow? I know he's no speedster but I've seen slower halfbacks - Tim Smith springs to mind. I'm not saying your wrong I'm just not sure he is that slow.

He's slower than Miller but I wouldn't like to put money on a foot race between him and Finn right now.

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:24 pm  

ScrummingJumper wrote:

I can't work out if you are the most arrogant, ignorant man on these boards! If anyone doesn't take on board your almighty rugby knowledge then you are straight on the offensive.

I take into account your link but I also take into account that I have eyes, have seen him play and like many others who must also be thick and ignorant can not believe for a moment Stuart Howarth is a super league level half.

As it will be impossible to have any sort of reasonable debate with you as you obviously know much much more than me regarding the subject I'll sit back and keep my opinions to myself. God forbid anyone have a differing opinion to yourself on a forum.

I do love folk like you - you feel you can post as derogatory a comment as you wish but when someone has the audacity to hit back as hard or harder you run off blubbing. I made a very sensible suggestion, you chose to have a pop - at least be big enough to accept the consequences.

The bit in bold is truly arrogant, it's your opinion and that of a few others - doesn't make it so does it.

At no point did anyone think Sykes was a S/O and please don't pretend you did yet combined with Smith he was excellent. Tracey Lazenby also springs to mind as do many others. Trinity's recent history is full of players stepping up to the mark, when will people like you ever learne - it baffles me it really does. It's often a case of who fits and Howarth in my clearly nowhere near as clever opinion as yours is a player who fits with other players - just a thought.

But hey folks lets just carry on stereotyping players and not giving them the benefit because we all know the signing of Johnathan Thurston is just around the corner.

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:27 pm  

PopTart wrote:

He's slower than Miller but I wouldn't like to put money on a foot race between him and Finn right now.

Miller is lightning quick but needs a foil, Howarth would offer that if Finn were injured. If Miller were injured then Fin and Howarth would perhaps be a little pedestrian but still IMHO a more serviceable partnership than Hall who is talented but as yet seems to be a bit spineless. I suppose Moore is the most obvious step up although it's a while since he's played at 6 or 7.

Re: first team players : Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:30 pm  

vastman wrote:

Rubbish, he's played S/O a few times and I've seen him or does he just state these things fun. I'd love to know where you got the "never" from. Followed every game he's been in have you?

Disagree by all means but don't make up "facts" you can't prove

No it's not rubbish, he has never started a superleague game at stand off. As i stated he may have filled in for injury mid-game and I think he might of played a challenge cup game there for saints, thats it. The 'facts' are out there, feel free to chase them up yourself.