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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:10 pm  
I hope the board realise we won’t tolerate another season of crap. This is our 9th season under Carters leadership? The “woe is me” attitude just doesn’t cut It anymore.
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:29 pm  
Hopefully he rings the changes….

Butterworth
Kershaw
Langi
Hall
Murphy
Smith
Lino
Battye
Hood
Whitbread
Ashurst
Pitts
Proctor

Subs
Crowther
Atoni
Butler
Eseh
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:02 pm  
Where's this idea that we should be playing Butterworth at fullback next week come from? He's a halfback first and fullback second, in fact during his time on loan at Oldham last year he even played as a hooker more than a fullback! He didn't play in the reserves game the other week i don't think and only made a fleeting appearance in one of the pre-season games from memory so has had no game time. There's also major doubts he's anywhere near super league ready yet anyway. It's a no from me, as much for his own good as ours.
jonh 
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:17 pm  
PopTart wrote:
So suddenly Hall, Lino, Atoni, Ashurst, Proctor are rubbish?


Atoni of those is the concern. Big debut on Boxing Day against a young Leeds side…beyond that he has been anonymous/missing in action ever since.

He really needs to step it up.
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:19 pm  
I am just watching the highlights again.

Try 1 - Taufua hit the dummy runner which Lino had covered when he should have slid across to tackle the centre. This left Murphy in a 2 on 1 and a break down the wing. Lino ran behind to try clean up Taufua’s mistake in hitting the wrong man and although it wasn’t a great attempt on French Lino wasn’t at fault for the try. Taufua unfortunately isn’t a centre.

Try 2 - kick behind the winger. Lineham despite having a 5-7 yard start was beaten for pace (admittedly had to turn). Marshall is no slouch but this also happened vs Catalans when Lineham was beaten for pace. Gaskell also got nowhere near. If Jowitt was playing this would likely have been swept up.

Try 3 - didn’t notice at the time but we were 4 on 4 but Willie ISA charged through the line and shoulder charged Mason Lino who was sliding across. This caused disarray in the line and both Taufua and Murphy went for the same man leaving French on the wing vs nobody. Murphy should have been on the wing and trusted Taufua to take his man. That said this should have been disallowed with the obstruction on Mason Lino in the line. Gaskell also was jogging across the back, he should have at least go to the cover tackle.

Try 4 - Farrell was dummy runner. Corey Hall jammed in to tackle Farrell who was a dummy runner (and was covered). Ball went behind and left Lineham 2 v 1 with a lot of space. Corey Hall 100% at fault and nothing Lineham could do. Lineham had to push the centre Wardle as Hall had completely fluffed it. Langi made a good effort to almost get back to cover but to no avail.

Try 5 - Tanginoa seemed to be off the pace in getting to field. Langi charged in on field with Farrel on his shoulder it left the gap. Gaskell was stepped by Farrel when he really should have made that tackle. Gaskell really should have prevented that try. Tanginoa was limping at this point.

Try 6 - Hall failed to tackle Field. Lineham had Marshall covered and I think Hall even signalled to Lineham to cover the winger. Hall should have made the tackle but Wigan did well to create the space from scrum. It was a good move from the scrum drawing in defenders.

Try 7 - Langi went to tackle Wigan player who was already covered and tackled by Proctor. This left the edges a little short initially. Hall was covering a dummy runner (also planted stood still) but was short due to Langi earlier. Ultimately Field got on the outside of Hall yet again leaving Lineham 2 v 1 and a pass to winger meant a simple try. Langi and Hall mostly at fault here. There needs to be more trust from players to make 1 on 1 tackles.

Try 8 - Corey Hall again Jammed in on Farrell who was again dummy runner… (was this under instruction from the coaching team??). This left a 3 v 1 with Lineham!!!! Langi tried his best to cover behind but the centre passed and ran in front of Langi and then the Wigan centre flew past Gaskell. Gaskell could have got to tackle the winger but was tripped up/obstructed by the Wigan centre (on close inspection the Wigan 4 pulled Gaskell arm and swung Gaskell round. This should have been disallowed imo for obstruction on Gaskell. Langi and Gaskell both appealed to ref but fell on deaf ears it seems. The initial case though was Hall I’m afraid targeting Farrel again who was again a dummy runner.

Try 9 - drop out challenged by Taufua and Murphy. Lino and Ashurst overrun the ball and didn’t attempt to move behind to cover. Perhaps only one player should challenge. That said Lino probably should have been trying to get behind Murphy to cover any loose ball or player that may get come on the attack.

Try 10 - Corey Hall again I’m afraid. It was 3 on 3. Langi had Farrel covered and even told Hall to push out. Hall AGAIN jammed in on Farrel…. Guess what. Left a 2 on 1 for Lineham again. Langi had Farrell covered. Langi managed to make a cover tackle to no avail.

Try 11 - forward pass from hooker at 9 for the initial break missed by officials but pretty clear cut on the highlights. Regardless the halfback broke through tackles of Battye and Butler. Poor by the ref thought to miss the forward pass.

Few points…

The referee doesn’t appear to know what obstructions are.

3 trys should have been chalked off.

Langi worked really hard to try and clean up some defensive errors! Can’t fault that guy and he needs to be in centre.

Proctor looked to be working very hard in defence.

How to fix it up???

Hall needs to be careful not to get drawn into dummy runners leaving his winger exposed. Also needs to be able to read the play and be more observant. If this was a coaching tactic for Hall to target Farrel it left us exposed to overlaps.

Gaskell isn’t a full back and we’d be better even with Butterworth.

The middle forwards are not the issue at all. It went wrong between Langi > Hall a few times and Taufua > Murphy.

The halfbacks > centre > wing defence structure needs to be looked at. The jamming in from Hall and Taufua needs to be addressed.

Actually Lineham was dealt a poor hand in this game. He was left high and dry.
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:26 pm  
Sacred Cow wrote:
Where's this idea that we should be playing Butterworth at fullback next week come from? He's a halfback first and fullback second, in fact during his time on loan at Oldham last year he even played as a hooker more than a fullback! He didn't play in the reserves game the other week i don't think and only made a fleeting appearance in one of the pre-season games from memory so has had no game time. There's also major doubts he's anywhere near super league ready yet anyway. It's a no from me, as much for his own good as ours.


In the academy he played Full back mostly o believe. Certainly the ones i saw him in. Last year he played vs Leeds at full back also to cover injury. Also in pre season at full back this year.
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:30 pm  
jonh wrote:
Atoni of those is the concern. Big debut on Boxing Day against a young Leeds side…beyond that he has been anonymous/missing in action ever since.

He really needs to step it up.


The go forward does need to improve for sure but that’s difficult when you’re constantly pinned in your 30/40 and coming out from deep every set. Improving set completion and tackling will give the territory to allow the forwards to get on the front foot instead of constantly bringing it out from deep.

The major issue that needs sorting before anything else is the edge defence and the wrong decisions the players are making out wide leaving the wingers 2/3 v 1.
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:40 pm  
Not signing Shaul albeit probably a financial decision now appears to be a mistake and appears needed more than an import winger.
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 1:53 pm  
Trojan Horse wrote:
I am just watching the highlights again.

Try 1 - Taufua hit the dummy runner which Lino had covered when he should have slid across to tackle the centre. This left Murphy in a 2 on 1 and a break down the wing. Lino ran behind to try clean up Taufua’s mistake in hitting the wrong man and although it wasn’t a great attempt on French Lino wasn’t at fault for the try. Taufua unfortunately isn’t a centre.

Try 2 - kick behind the winger. Lineham despite having a 5-7 yard start was beaten for pace (admittedly had to turn). Marshall is no slouch but this also happened vs Catalans when Lineham was beaten for pace. Gaskell also got nowhere near. If Jowitt was playing this would likely have been swept up.

Try 3 - didn’t notice at the time but we were 4 on 4 but Willie ISA charged through the line and shoulder charged Mason Lino who was sliding across. This caused disarray in the line and both Taufua and Murphy went for the same man leaving French on the wing vs nobody. Murphy should have been on the wing and trusted Taufua to take his man. That said this should have been disallowed with the obstruction on Mason Lino in the line. Gaskell also was jogging across the back, he should have at least go to the cover tackle.

Try 4 - Farrell was dummy runner. Corey Hall jammed in to tackle Farrell who was a dummy runner (and was covered). Ball went behind and left Lineham 2 v 1 with a lot of space. Corey Hall 100% at fault and nothing Lineham could do. Lineham had to push the centre Wardle as Hall had completely fluffed it. Langi made a good effort to almost get back to cover but to no avail.

Try 5 - Tanginoa seemed to be off the pace in getting to field. Langi charged in on field with Farrel on his shoulder it left the gap. Gaskell was stepped by Farrel when he really should have made that tackle. Gaskell really should have prevented that try. Tanginoa was limping at this point.

Try 6 - Hall failed to tackle Field. Lineham had Marshall covered and I think Hall even signalled to Lineham to cover the winger. Hall should have made the tackle but Wigan did well to create the space from scrum. It was a good move from the scrum drawing in defenders.

Try 7 - Langi went to tackle Wigan player who was already covered and tackled by Proctor. This left the edges a little short initially. Hall was covering a dummy runner (also planted stood still) but was short due to Langi earlier. Ultimately Field got on the outside of Hall yet again leaving Lineham 2 v 1 and a pass to winger meant a simple try. Langi and Hall mostly at fault here. There needs to be more trust from players to make 1 on 1 tackles.

Try 8 - Corey Hall again Jammed in on Farrell who was again dummy runner… (was this under instruction from the coaching team??). This left a 3 v 1 with Lineham!!!! Langi tried his best to cover behind but the centre passed and ran in front of Langi and then the Wigan centre flew past Gaskell. Gaskell could have got to tackle the winger but was tripped up/obstructed by the Wigan centre (on close inspection the Wigan 4 pulled Gaskell arm and swung Gaskell round. This should have been disallowed imo for obstruction on Gaskell. Langi and Gaskell both appealed to ref but fell on deaf ears it seems. The initial case though was Hall I’m afraid targeting Farrel again who was again a dummy runner.

Try 9 - drop out challenged by Taufua and Murphy. Lino and Ashurst overrun the ball and didn’t attempt to move behind to cover. Perhaps only one player should challenge. That said Lino probably should have been trying to get behind Murphy to cover any loose ball or player that may get come on the attack.

Try 10 - Corey Hall again I’m afraid. It was 3 on 3. Langi had Farrel covered and even told Hall to push out. Hall AGAIN jammed in on Farrel…. Guess what. Left a 2 on 1 for Lineham again. Langi had Farrell covered. Langi managed to make a cover tackle to no avail.

Try 11 - forward pass from hooker at 9 for the initial break missed by officials but pretty clear cut on the highlights. Regardless the halfback broke through tackles of Battye and Butler. Poor by the ref thought to miss the forward pass.

Few points…

The referee doesn’t appear to know what obstructions are.

3 trys should have been chalked off.

Langi worked really hard to try and clean up some defensive errors! Can’t fault that guy and he needs to be in centre.

Proctor looked to be working very hard in defence.

How to fix it up???

Hall needs to be careful not to get drawn into dummy runners leaving his winger exposed. Also needs to be able to read the play and be more observant. If this was a coaching tactic for Hall to target Farrel it left us exposed to overlaps.

Gaskell isn’t a full back and we’d be better even with Butterworth.

The middle forwards are not the issue at all. It went wrong between Langi > Hall a few times and Taufua > Murphy.

The halfbacks > centre > wing defence structure needs to be looked at. The jamming in from Hall and Taufua needs to be addressed.

Actually Lineham was dealt a poor hand in this game. He was left high and dry.


Great analytical post. Thank you.

Corey Hall gets a bit of a touch up here, which is surprising but obviously he has work to do.

And Gaskell, well, pfft
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Re: Wigan Warriors vs Wakefield Trinity : Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:03 pm  
Trojan Horse wrote:
In the academy he played Full back mostly o believe. Certainly the ones i saw him in. Last year he played vs Leeds at full back also to cover injury. Also in pre season at full back this year.

He may have played a handful of games there last year but the academy league is a country mile off super league level. So is the reserves for that matter, but he didn't really feature a fullback there much either, he was usually picked in the halves. Half an hour in a pre-season game against a championship club does not make him ready for the first team. Also which Leeds game last year are you talking about as he hasn't made his super league debut yet? I'd be very careful of chucking a very inexperienced young lad in what would be out of his natural position.
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