Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:02 am  

coco the fullback wrote: Real people wasn't probably the best phrase. What I meant was if you don't want your 'evidence' to be dismissed it needs to come from reliable and verifiable sources. A.N.Other on Twitter is not such a source, neither is 'coco the fullback' on RL fans. The only 2 reliable/verifiable sources you quote are WebMD, which doesn't even mention masks or even suggest that wearing masks could cause hypoxema/hypoxia and John Wells is verifiable, but anecdotal. It is true that covering your mouth will restrict oxygen flow a little, particularly during physical exertion, but this is absolutely not a problem for anyone who doesn't have serious breathing issues anyway. I would suggest that climbing stairs would be a problem anyway for someone with severe asthma, bronchitis, COPD etc. with or without a mask. However, catch this virus and you may then know about breathing difficulties, possibly long-term. So, if you want us to take your evidence seriously, give us some reliable/verifiable source that links mask wearing to hypoxema/hypoxia in otherwise healthy humans. Google is your friend, or in this case maybe not... https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... dangerous/ https://factcheck.afp.com/using-face-ma ... se-hypoxia https://verafiles.org/articles/vera-fil ... cause-hypo https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/fact-ch ... ce-hypoxia https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact- ... ypercapnia https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/fact ... 260106002/ https://www.techarp.com/science/face-ma ... xia-facts/ That's better, thank you. The first link Poynter basically just repeats the mantra that it's a "hoax" with very little actual back up. Interestingly on the comments page of your first link were these. Except there are peer reviewed studies that indicate otherwise. This is not a very good fact check. I got a very bad headache yesterday after doing our grocery shopping. I was in the store for an hour due to attempting to social distance while getting enough groceries for at least a week for our family of 6. I struggled. I will note that peer reviewed studies were conducted on OR staff while they were stationary and they suffered from deoxygenated oxygen sats. I am still looking for a study on masked people doing activities. I am going to look in OSHA documents next. Alaskaseafox May 19, 2020 at 7:43 AM, For the simple fact that face mask were made mandatory at my job Monday, I can attest that those fact checks are not at all correct. I work in a factory, where I move vigorously. To wear a face mask for 10 hours a day and to only really remove it during breaks is ridiculous. Since this has been mandated, I’ve had an on going headache , dizziness, very disoriented.. i was just fine before all of this. MSessential May 20, 2020 at 11:53 PM, You know, sometimes peoples real experiences are far more worthy than a guy in a lab desperately trying to please his employer. But just as an aside, and I'm not doubting the validity of those links. To describe Google as a friend is way of the mark. Any all powerful organization that practices censorship either through Youtube or the way they organize their search engine results to favour, shall we say, certain agendas is no friend of mine.

coco the fullback wrote: Real people wasn't probably the best phrase. What I meant was if you don't want your 'evidence' to be dismissed it needs to come from reliable and verifiable sources. A.N.Other on Twitter is not such a source, neither is 'coco the fullback' on RL fans. The only 2 reliable/verifiable sources you quote are WebMD, which doesn't even mention masks or even suggest that wearing masks could cause hypoxema/hypoxia and John Wells is verifiable, but anecdotal. It is true that covering your mouth will restrict oxygen flow a little, particularly during physical exertion, but this is absolutely not a problem for anyone who doesn't have serious breathing issues anyway. I would suggest that climbing stairs would be a problem anyway for someone with severe asthma, bronchitis, COPD etc. with or without a mask. However, catch this virus and you may then know about breathing difficulties, possibly long-term. So, if you want us to take your evidence seriously, give us some reliable/verifiable source that links mask wearing to hypoxema/hypoxia in otherwise healthy humans. Google is your friend, or in this case maybe not... https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... dangerous/ https://factcheck.afp.com/using-face-ma ... se-hypoxia https://verafiles.org/articles/vera-fil ... cause-hypo https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/fact-ch ... ce-hypoxia https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact- ... ypercapnia https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/fact ... 260106002/ https://www.techarp.com/science/face-ma ... xia-facts/ That's better, thank you. The first link Poynter basically just repeats the mantra that it's a "hoax" with very little actual back up. Interestingly on the comments page of your first link were these. Except there are peer reviewed studies that indicate otherwise. This is not a very good fact check. I got a very bad headache yesterday after doing our grocery shopping. I was in the store for an hour due to attempting to social distance while getting enough groceries for at least a week for our family of 6. I struggled. I will note that peer reviewed studies were conducted on OR staff while they were stationary and they suffered from deoxygenated oxygen sats. I am still looking for a study on masked people doing activities. I am going to look in OSHA documents next. Alaskaseafox May 19, 2020 at 7:43 AM, For the simple fact that face mask were made mandatory at my job Monday, I can attest that those fact checks are not at all correct. I work in a factory, where I move vigorously. To wear a face mask for 10 hours a day and to only really remove it during breaks is ridiculous. Since this has been mandated, I’ve had an on going headache , dizziness, very disoriented.. i was just fine before all of this. MSessential May 20, 2020 at 11:53 PM, You know, sometimes peoples real experiences are far more worthy than a guy in a lab desperately trying to please his employer. But just as an aside, and I'm not doubting the validity of those links. To describe Google as a friend is way of the mark. Any all powerful organization that practices censorship either through Youtube or the way they organize their search engine results to favour, shall we say, certain agendas is no friend of mine.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:35 am  

coco the fullback wrote: Real people wasn't probably the best phrase. What I meant was if you don't want your 'evidence' to be dismissed it needs to come from reliable and verifiable sources. A.N.Other on Twitter is not such a source, neither is 'coco the fullback' on RL fans. The only 2 reliable/verifiable sources you quote are WebMD, which doesn't even mention masks or even suggest that wearing masks could cause hypoxema/hypoxia and John Wells is verifiable, but anecdotal. It is true that covering your mouth will restrict oxygen flow a little, particularly during physical exertion, but this is absolutely not a problem for anyone who doesn't have serious breathing issues anyway. I would suggest that climbing stairs would be a problem anyway for someone with severe asthma, bronchitis, COPD etc. with or without a mask. However, catch this virus and you may then know about breathing difficulties, possibly long-term. So, if you want us to take your evidence seriously, give us some reliable/verifiable source that links mask wearing to hypoxema/hypoxia in otherwise healthy humans. Google is your friend, or in this case maybe not... https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... dangerous/ https://factcheck.afp.com/using-face-ma ... se-hypoxia https://verafiles.org/articles/vera-fil ... cause-hypo https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/fact-ch ... ce-hypoxia https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact- ... ypercapnia https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/fact ... 260106002/ https://www.techarp.com/science/face-ma ... xia-facts/ VERAFILES. Very interesting Dr. Abrar Ahmad Chughtai of the University of New South Wales also told Snopes that hypoxia is unlikely to take place with cloth and surgical masks because they are not tight-fitting. "Unlikely? Does Dr. Abrar Ahmad Chughtai of the University of New South Wales not know for sure? Chughtai, however, did point out that those with pre-existing respiratory conditions such as asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease “may face difficulty breathing” when using some types of tight-fitting masks.” Next: A study in 2013 recorded in the U.S. National Library of Medicine website involving 10 nurses who wore N95 masks during two full 12-hour shifts, showed evidence disputing the claim. While it recorded “perceived exertion, perceived shortness of air, and complaints of headache and lightheadedness,” it concluded there were no “clinically relevant” physiological changes caused by long-term use of respirators. Well all-right-eee , but that sounds rather a patronizing attitude towards the poor nurses. Wish we could ask those nurses. Now this further comment on your recommended website is very revealing. The inaccurate post also made a recommendation: to lift one’s mask every 10 minutes “to continue feeling healthy.” This can be problematic because as the U.S. CDC warns, the most significant risk of extended use and reuse of respirators is of “contact transmission from touching the surface of the contaminated respirator.” WHO says to “clean your hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water” every time one touches the mask. It also advised to replace a mask as soon as it is damp, and to not reuse single-use masks. Cloth masks, on the other hand, must be washed routinely, according to the U.S. CDC. Now, does that not confirm much of what has been commented on? How many people, non that I have observed, keep to the regime in those last two paragraphs. Virtually no one is my guess.

coco the fullback wrote: Real people wasn't probably the best phrase. What I meant was if you don't want your 'evidence' to be dismissed it needs to come from reliable and verifiable sources. A.N.Other on Twitter is not such a source, neither is 'coco the fullback' on RL fans. The only 2 reliable/verifiable sources you quote are WebMD, which doesn't even mention masks or even suggest that wearing masks could cause hypoxema/hypoxia and John Wells is verifiable, but anecdotal. It is true that covering your mouth will restrict oxygen flow a little, particularly during physical exertion, but this is absolutely not a problem for anyone who doesn't have serious breathing issues anyway. I would suggest that climbing stairs would be a problem anyway for someone with severe asthma, bronchitis, COPD etc. with or without a mask. However, catch this virus and you may then know about breathing difficulties, possibly long-term. So, if you want us to take your evidence seriously, give us some reliable/verifiable source that links mask wearing to hypoxema/hypoxia in otherwise healthy humans. Google is your friend, or in this case maybe not... https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2 ... dangerous/ https://factcheck.afp.com/using-face-ma ... se-hypoxia https://verafiles.org/articles/vera-fil ... cause-hypo https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/fact-ch ... ce-hypoxia https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/fact- ... ypercapnia https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/fact ... 260106002/ https://www.techarp.com/science/face-ma ... xia-facts/ VERAFILES. Very interesting Dr. Abrar Ahmad Chughtai of the University of New South Wales also told Snopes that hypoxia is unlikely to take place with cloth and surgical masks because they are not tight-fitting. "Unlikely? Does Dr. Abrar Ahmad Chughtai of the University of New South Wales not know for sure? Chughtai, however, did point out that those with pre-existing respiratory conditions such as asthma or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease “may face difficulty breathing” when using some types of tight-fitting masks.” Next: A study in 2013 recorded in the U.S. National Library of Medicine website involving 10 nurses who wore N95 masks during two full 12-hour shifts, showed evidence disputing the claim. While it recorded “perceived exertion, perceived shortness of air, and complaints of headache and lightheadedness,” it concluded there were no “clinically relevant” physiological changes caused by long-term use of respirators. Well all-right-eee , but that sounds rather a patronizing attitude towards the poor nurses. Wish we could ask those nurses. Now this further comment on your recommended website is very revealing. The inaccurate post also made a recommendation: to lift one’s mask every 10 minutes “to continue feeling healthy.” This can be problematic because as the U.S. CDC warns, the most significant risk of extended use and reuse of respirators is of “contact transmission from touching the surface of the contaminated respirator.” WHO says to “clean your hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water” every time one touches the mask. It also advised to replace a mask as soon as it is damp, and to not reuse single-use masks. Cloth masks, on the other hand, must be washed routinely, according to the U.S. CDC. Now, does that not confirm much of what has been commented on? How many people, non that I have observed, keep to the regime in those last two paragraphs. Virtually no one is my guess.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:50 am  

On your Techarp website.

Fact #5 : Most Civilians Won’t Wear Face Masks For Long Hours
Unless you are a healthcare worker, or work in very dusty workplaces, you are unlikely to wear face masks for long hours.
During the COVID-19 pandemic, face masks are used only when we go out in public. There is no need to wear face masks at home, or in your personal vehicle.

Wrong, many people are now expected to wear masks for whole shifts.

Fact #6 : You May Get A Headache / Feel Uncomfortable
Now, the carbon dioxide will build up with extended use, but most people will tolerate and not notice it.
Those who are sensitive to the increase in carbon dioxide may get a headache or feel uncomfortable. Certainly, they will be motivated to remove the face mask long before they develop hypoxia and lose consciousness.

So are they saying, on your recommended website, that you can develop hypoxia???

Fact #7 : You Should NOT Touch Your Face Mask!
Now, it is BAD ADVICE to lift your face mask every 10 minutes to “get some fresh air”.
Once you put on your face mask and go out in public, you should consider it (and your hands) contaminated. At no point should you touch the front of your face mask, much less lift it up over and over again.
If you follow that bad advice to keep lifting your face mask every 10 minutes, you could contaminate yourself in the process.

Someone should give Chris Chester this advice.

Good advice again but the reality is this does not happen. In my experience everyone is constantly putting on and removing their masks. I live opposite a bus stop and a shop and believe me, they are on, they are off, and many fiddle with them constantly and as for schoolkids, not the most considerate age group are they?

Dump the masks, for good.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:32 pm  

The situation in Melbourne Australia sounds absolutely shocking. I implore everybody to look into this and hope against hope we do not get to their level of lockdown. Victorians liken the place to a police state.
Do the enablers (you know who you are) on here want the situation there to be the norm here. If they do will they finally feel completely safe.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:18 pm  

Miro wrote:

The situation in Melbourne Australia sounds absolutely shocking. I implore everybody to look into this and hope against hope we do not get to their level of lockdown. Victorians liken the place to a police state.
Do the enablers (you know who you are) on here want the situation there to be the norm here. If they do will they finally feel completely safe.

Is there ANYONE that wants the current situation to be the norm ?

There are different schools of thought and opinion as to haw people should carry on and go about their daily business but, I certainly dont know anyone who wants what we have now or, a deeper lockdown, to be the norm.

You mention in an earlier post about preferring personal experiences to "state" advice but, surely, this is open to substantial differences in interpretation and some fact based advice would be better.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:46 pm  

Miro wrote:

On your Techarp website.

Fact #5 : Most Civilians Won’t Wear Face Masks For Long Hours
Unless you are a healthcare worker, or work in very dusty workplaces, you are unlikely to wear face masks for long hours.
During the COVID-19 pandemic, face masks are used only when we go out in public. There is no need to wear face masks at home, or in your personal vehicle.

Wrong, many people are now expected to wear masks for whole shifts.

Fact #6 : You May Get A Headache / Feel Uncomfortable
Now, the carbon dioxide will build up with extended use, but most people will tolerate and not notice it.
Those who are sensitive to the increase in carbon dioxide may get a headache or feel uncomfortable. Certainly, they will be motivated to remove the face mask long before they develop hypoxia and lose consciousness.

So are they saying, on your recommended website, that you can develop hypoxia???

Fact #7 : You Should NOT Touch Your Face Mask!
Now, it is BAD ADVICE to lift your face mask every 10 minutes to “get some fresh air”.
Once you put on your face mask and go out in public, you should consider it (and your hands) contaminated. At no point should you touch the front of your face mask, much less lift it up over and over again.
If you follow that bad advice to keep lifting your face mask every 10 minutes, you could contaminate yourself in the process.

Someone should give Chris Chester this advice.

Good advice again but the reality is this does not happen. In my experience everyone is constantly putting on and removing their masks. I live opposite a bus stop and a shop and believe me, they are on, they are off, and many fiddle with them constantly and as for schoolkids, not the most considerate age group are they?

Dump the masks, for good.

My my you do have a lot of time on your hands all this Covid Conspiracy Theory to research, sharing nonsense gossip and now with added curtain twitching spying on the general public you must be Super Miro (do you have a big moustache_

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:44 pm  

RickK wrote:

My my you do have a lot of time on your hands all this Covid Conspiracy Theory to research, sharing nonsense gossip and now with added curtain twitching spying on the general public you must be Super Miro (do you have a big moustache_

Miro is entitled to his thoughts / opinions just like you, can we just debate them without the putdowns, he may be right, he may be wrong, but at least he is looking up various thoughts and figures from other people,who are experts,and also don't agree with what's going on with Covid restrictions and how the virus is being dealt with.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:08 pm  

Miro wrote: The situation in Melbourne Australia sounds absolutely shocking. I implore everybody to look into this and hope against hope we do not get to their level of lockdown. Victorians liken the place to a police state. Do the enablers (you know who you are) on here want the situation there to be the norm here. If they do will they finally feel completely safe. Have you seen the Western Australia Public Health Act 2016 (last updated July 2019), sheer madness: "Enforcement of requirement to undergo medical observation or medical or other procedure(1)If an emergency officer gives a direction to a person under section184(1)(c) to undergo medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment or to be vaccinated, an emergency officer or police officer may use reasonable force to ensure that the direction is complied with, including, if necessary—(a)to apprehend and detain the person to whom the direction applies (the relevant person) and take the relevant person to a place where the person is required to undergo medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment or to be vaccinated in accordance with the direction; and(b)to detain the relevant person at the place where he or she is required to undergo medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment or to be vaccinated in accordance with the direction; and(c)to restrain the relevant person—(i)to enable a medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment to be carried out; or(ii)to enable the relevant person to be vaccinated; and(d)to remove anything (including underwear) that the relevant person is wearing, if—(i)the removal of the thing is reasonably necessary to enable a medical examination or medical treatment to be carried out or, as the case requires, to enable the person to be vaccinated; and (ii)the relevant person is given a reasonable opportunity to remove the thing himself or herself, and refuses or fails to do so." Here's the link to the document if anyone questions this source of information. https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legis ... mYltqsqbPk It's not a conspiracy theory but a conspiracy fact. If there isn't enough take up they'll force it on them using this shameful act.

Miro wrote: The situation in Melbourne Australia sounds absolutely shocking. I implore everybody to look into this and hope against hope we do not get to their level of lockdown. Victorians liken the place to a police state. Do the enablers (you know who you are) on here want the situation there to be the norm here. If they do will they finally feel completely safe. Have you seen the Western Australia Public Health Act 2016 (last updated July 2019), sheer madness: "Enforcement of requirement to undergo medical observation or medical or other procedure(1)If an emergency officer gives a direction to a person under section184(1)(c) to undergo medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment or to be vaccinated, an emergency officer or police officer may use reasonable force to ensure that the direction is complied with, including, if necessary—(a)to apprehend and detain the person to whom the direction applies (the relevant person) and take the relevant person to a place where the person is required to undergo medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment or to be vaccinated in accordance with the direction; and(b)to detain the relevant person at the place where he or she is required to undergo medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment or to be vaccinated in accordance with the direction; and(c)to restrain the relevant person—(i)to enable a medical observation, medical examination or medical treatment to be carried out; or(ii)to enable the relevant person to be vaccinated; and(d)to remove anything (including underwear) that the relevant person is wearing, if—(i)the removal of the thing is reasonably necessary to enable a medical examination or medical treatment to be carried out or, as the case requires, to enable the person to be vaccinated; and (ii)the relevant person is given a reasonable opportunity to remove the thing himself or herself, and refuses or fails to do so." Here's the link to the document if anyone questions this source of information. https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legis ... mYltqsqbPk It's not a conspiracy theory but a conspiracy fact. If there isn't enough take up they'll force it on them using this shameful act.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:31 pm  

Statement against face masks; "If masks don't work, then why do surgeons wear them?"

"If a surgeon were sick, especially with a viral infection, they would not perform surgery as they know the virus would NOT be stopped by their surgical mask."

Here's Dr Hilary's comments on face masks back in April appearing on GMB TV "For healthy people who are doing their essential journey who are socially distancing, the use of masks is not effective. Most masks have gaps in them to which the virus can drive a bus through. When you are inhaling in a mask the virus can come in. It can do harm if you do wear a mask, you adjust it, it gets itchy and moist – which means you are putting your hand to your face more often. ‘If the mask gets moist it traps the virus." Then came his u-turn in June "‘I've always said that where people can't socially distance they should be wearing some kind of face covering. It stops other people from picking up the virus from people who may be symptomatic or not who have got the virus." All his opinions now bought and paid for by the World Health Organisation no doubt. Just one example but there are many other doctors that sold out too.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:17 pm  

RickK wrote:

My my you do have a lot of time on your hands all this Covid Conspiracy Theory to research, sharing nonsense gossip and now with added curtain twitching spying on the general public you must be Super Miro (do you have a big moustache_

"Spying on the general public, do I have a big moustashe ? You are a drama queen RikK , you should stick to reading those Mills and Boons books..

Seriously.
Looking out of the window while making a cup of tea or sticking me bread in the toaster ain't spying. No doubt you never look out of the window or even open your curtains. Go on, have a look outside, it's fun.
As for research, I was given a bunch of links to research so out of consideration to the poster that's exactly what I did.
Very little I research is theory. Theory isn't really necessary, the goons running the show drop so many gaffs I'm amazed you don't pick up on them. Still, you never even look out of the window for fear of "SPYING ???"