Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:00 am  

JINJER wrote:

Very true. I know it would be costly but why not forcibly isolate them, straight into a hotel on site for two weeks. These are extraordinary times, this government needs to be tougher, if you don’t want imposed isolation then don’t fly, simple.

That is what is happening with some.

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:04 am  

BarnsleyGull wrote:

That is what is happening with some.

Good, we’ve enough with our own knob heads putting lives at risk without allowing people to travel in from Covid19 hot spots.

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:09 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

There is serious point on just who is flying into Heathrow.
The numbers of flights is down by 90% but, for one of the busiest airports in the world, that's an awful lot of people still coming and going (around 700,000), without any enforced isolation.
Of course, many of these are Britons returning home, after being stuck abroad and foreign nationals returning home after being stuck here but, it's a huge number and all this while most of us are stuck at home ??

I've no doubt. However, that's not the point. I can guarantee you that you will find 20 versions of the said story as with many others regarding Coronavirus, all with a slant that suits their particular agenda, That's fine in the cut and thrust of real life. It will also be ok once all this is over. There is a time and a place and now isn't it.

The conceit seems to be amongst the press and a lot of people, in general, is that they are keeping the Government on its toes and holding it to account a sort of crusading for the public. This IMHO it shows arrogance or a sense of attention-seeking that I don't like and I feel to be unhelpful and dishonest.

I don't say this to defend Ministers of Civil Servants, I say it because virtually nobody is an expert on this subject and even those who have until now only ever dealt in hypotheticals. Yet now led by the tiresome Piers Morgan they are all expert and have all the answers and expect a huge government apparatus to be able to adjust to their pet theories instantly.

It's overused but now is the time for solidarity and that include the FACT that we have to go with those in charge under the assumption that they are doing their best There must be a sound reason why people are still entering the country, it may not be a reason you approve of but that's why we have governments, people who are willing to make decisions. Ever been to a meeting where the chair asks the audience their opinion? I have and often there is a wall of silence. People chelp a lot but when given the chance they rarely contribute.

There is something unpleasant about most politicians, however, as yet I'm not aware of an alternative.

We could run the country X-Factor style but I have seen the way the general public seem to vote I don't think that's a great idea.

So IMO and it's only my opinion in extraordinary times like this the press needs to be reigned in and stories need to be stringently checked, not censored but checked for accuracy. That's not reducing free speech, it's reducing false information by having to justify what's been printed. This is what happened in WW2 and our democracy seemed to survive.

As for the story, it seems true, the context however is not, because I still don't know the reason why.

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:31 am  

A very good and well reasoned post, summed up perfectly for me, well said

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:53 am  

Fishermanscap wrote:

Do you read the Daily Mail? Not a snipe but its performance in peddling these fake news stories has bee appalling even by their standards.

One enquiry I would like to see when this is over is a genuine look at the role of the press, all of them not just the mail.

I'm not trying to shackle the press but on issues of public safety, I believe they should be compelled to name sources and provide links, not just to those who support the story but also those who don't.

No, I don’t read the newspapers, I listen to TV and radio news and current affairs programs. Just been listening to live tv broadcast of health committee meeting, the subject of not screening incoming travelers was brought up by Yvette Cooper, Mat Hancock’s reply was strange, it went along the lines of, testing wasn’t worth doing because there’s already a huge number of confirmed virus cases already in the country.

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:06 pm  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

No, I don’t read the newspapers, I listen to TV and radio news and current affairs programs. Just been listening to live tv broadcast of health committee meeting, the subject of not screening incoming travelers was brought up by Yvette Cooper, Mat Hancock’s reply was strange, it went along the lines of, testing wasn’t worth doing because there’s already a huge number of confirmed virus cases already in the country.

Instead of "it went along the lines of...", why don't you post the transcript of his actual answer?

Or won't that fit with your political agenda?

I watched the whole thing and found him to be extremely well briefed (which surprised me massively!!).

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:21 pm  

Fishermanscap wrote:

I've no doubt. However, that's not the point. I can guarantee you that you will find 20 versions of the said story as with many others regarding Coronavirus, all with a slant that suits their particular agenda, That's fine in the cut and thrust of real life. It will also be ok once all this is over. There is a time and a place and now isn't it.

The conceit seems to be amongst the press and a lot of people, in general, is that they are keeping the Government on its toes and holding it to account a sort of crusading for the public. This IMHO it shows arrogance or a sense of attention-seeking that I don't like and I feel to be unhelpful and dishonest.

I don't say this to defend Ministers of Civil Servants, I say it because virtually nobody is an expert on this subject and even those who have until now only ever dealt in hypotheticals. Yet now led by the tiresome Piers Morgan they are all expert and have all the answers and expect a huge government apparatus to be able to adjust to their pet theories instantly.

It's overused but now is the time for solidarity and that include the FACT that we have to go with those in charge under the assumption that they are doing their best There must be a sound reason why people are still entering the country, it may not be a reason you approve of but that's why we have governments, people who are willing to make decisions. Ever been to a meeting where the chair asks the audience their opinion? I have and often there is a wall of silence. People chelp a lot but when given the chance they rarely contribute.

There is something unpleasant about most politicians, however, as yet I'm not aware of an alternative.

We could run the country X-Factor style but I have seen the way the general public seem to vote I don't think that's a great idea.

So IMO and it's only my opinion in extraordinary times like this the press needs to be reigned in and stories need to be stringently checked, not censored but checked for accuracy. That's not reducing free speech, it's reducing false information by having to justify what's been printed. This is what happened in WW2 and our democracy seemed to survive.

As for the story, it seems true, the context however is not, because I still don't know the reason why.

Decent post FC, however, the point that I was trying to make is that, as a nation we were horribly slow in controlling the movement of people, a few weeks behind France, Germany, Spain and of course Italy and even now, there are 100,000's of people coming and going "freely".

The people on affected cruise liners come back to the UK and are forced into isolation and yet there are 700,000 landing at Heathrow and going on there way "unchecked".

Of course, we have no choice of government but, equally, in a democracy, we are all allowed to question what may be wrong and compliment what may be being done well.
FWIW, I think that the people of the UK have responded to the crisis very well and the vast, vast majority are doing the right things, with some being exceptional and that is as good as it can be.

However, it is absolutely right to question those in charge, just as much in the bad times as it is in the good.

As for the press, most of the Newspapers are awful, from the "red tops" to the broadsheets, with their owners largely beyond reproach and yet they create a narrative that we are almost forced to follow.

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 12:37 pm  

dboy wrote:

Instead of "it went along the lines of...", why don't you post the transcript of his actual answer?

Or won't that fit with your political agenda?

I watched the whole thing and found him to be extremely well briefed (which surprised me massively!!).

I don’t have a political agenda, I’ve voted conservatives last few elections, and been supportive of action taken re virus, but I find it difficult to support this action regarding incoming flights etc. You and I, have a difference of opinion. Nothing to do with political agendas.

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:18 pm  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

No, I don’t read the newspapers, I listen to TV and radio news and current affairs programs. Just been listening to live tv broadcast of health committee meeting, the subject of not screening incoming travelers was brought up by Yvette Cooper, Mat Hancock’s reply was strange, it went along the lines of, testing wasn’t worth doing because there’s already a huge number of confirmed virus cases already in the country.

They're all part of the same group think and attended the same private schools and have been filtered through the same system. They all have the same ideological prejudices and all work within the same narrow parameters of what is considered acceptable opinion. There's not much difference between newspapers, radio or tv news affairs besides the colour of the suit they are wearing. We live under a system of huge propaganda and coercion. Most people will never know that they don't know what is going on.

With regards to the coronavirus it is obvious that there are mistakes (if you want to call them mistakes - some might say that it's a deliberate choice) being made left, right and centre and that is because it isn't beneficial in the short term for capitalists to create long term solutions to a pandemic when they are interested in paying their stockholders huge profits. After the SARS epidemic in 2003 (which was a coronavirus) there has been an age of time and lots of research into animal coronaviruses and of course the scientific community has known of the dangers this posed to human life and society. Understanding this isn't enough. Of course scientists UNDERSTOOD this could happen - so who is to blame here? The scientists? Of course not. Drug companies had the opportunity to do something - of course they didn't as this does not follow capitalist logic i.e. it's not their problem. Somebody's got to pay for it and why should they? So the alternative is the government. Well, the government is there to be the solution when the private sector is in trouble - that's well understood - but if it's just when the public needs something then the why should the government get involved?

Let's take the Trump as an example just for starters. USAID had a program detecting viruses that exist in animal populations that are getting closer to contact with humans because of habitat destruction and global warming. They were identifying thousands of potential viruses and working in China as well as in the US. Trump disbanded the project in October 2019. It's not in their interest to fund programmes that benefit the public if it comes at significant cost. Of course in terms of looking to the future and building our future our governments are vastly subidising the fossil fuel indistries despite them driving us to ecological catastrophe because it's well understood that short-term shareholder's profits are by far the short term priority as opposed to long term health.

Another examole being the production of ventilators. The system we live under means there isn't a surplus of ventilators in case of a catastrophe of course the govenrment could produce more ventilators to make sure that there are enough in the event of a pamdemic but again, this is not in the financial interest of businesses. There was an example in the Obama administration where after the Ebola pandemic the US government contracted a company to produce high quality low-cost ventilators however this company was bought out by another company who was competing with their own brand of ventilators and they tore up the contract with the government on the basis that it wasn't profitable enough.

The question is: what will the public do about it? The answer: not a lot if they think watching the BBC news at 6 will actually provide them with any knowledge of what is actually happening in the world.

If people think the government have done a good job then i'd suggest they're not really aware of what is happening. Which isn't necessarily their fault but they need to do research outside of listening to BBC radio 2 or the guardian (by all means read those things as well - I'm not saying they're compeltely useless because they're not). There has long been things governments could do to help the human population in the event of a pandemic - it's just not in their interest to do so in the short term.

It's not necessarily even about party politics. It's about the overall economic structure of our societies and where those at the tops priorities lie.

Re: Corona Virus : Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:40 pm  

A number of points raised but sadly not well made and lacking in facts that could support your outlook. Possibly following one theme rather than weaving several together would get your point across.