: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:28 pm  

BIGAL1 wrote:

I'm waiting for you to prove me wrong about Farrell, come on tell me about the HUGE success he's been since his move to union, go on please, after all he did get the vote.

Don't give me that guff about players and not knowing Jonh, i have been around far too long and coached far too many players to be told by YOU.

In fact without people like me, you would struggle to have anything to preach about, of course we don't put any work in

In the first 18 months in the game he was injured due to a car crash, then at the age of 33 after very little exposure to the game, and it is a very very different game, he was selected for the World Champions playing several tests, and being selected in the World Cup squad playing in the World Cup finals for his country, who were at the time World Champions and got to the final of said tournament. He was also voted the best player in the World of Rugby League even though he was "past his best", how does that work?

Do you enjoy seeing players you have invested time and money in, in a sport you love basically entering into a code where the best they can hope for is to be picked up by a Union club? I do not.

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:32 pm  

TRB wrote:

Is that not measured by performance. They can all do better - we know that is true!

I seriously do not think they can, not when put under pressure.

I do not know if you have Setanta but if you get a chance to see any of the NRL games you will see why. At our increasinly pedestrian pace in the competition we can do it fine, up the pace and the intensity to a reasonable level and we are all at see.

SL is very much the comfort zone for players, most of the players that went to Australia would not get a first team contract in the NRL due to the basic level of skill.

There is an article on Gaz Ellis floating about by Tim Sheens saying he was suprised the level of coaching he needed initially to get him up to an acceptable standard.

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:38 pm  

jonh wrote:

I was not looking at it from a performance point of view simply a basic skills point of view inability to pass, accuratley, catch etc etc.

Its the corner stone skills of our game that we pride ourselves on as a code and we are now failing to do it with our best players in an International environment.

So why would you recommend any player wanting to make it in union to start with league, where they learn the basic skills of passing and tackling?

In fact, why would union even bother looking at the top league players if these skills are demonstrated to be so poor at international level?

As you say, you couldn't make it up, but it seems you just have....

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:40 pm  

[quote="jonh"]I seriously do not think they can, not when put under pressure.

I do not know if you have Setanta but if you get a chance to see any of the NRL games you will see why. At our increasinly pedestrian pace in the competition we can do it fine, up the pace and the intensity to a reasonable level and we are all at see.

SL is very much the comfort zone for players, most of the players that went to Australia would not get a first team contract in the NRL due to the basic level of skill.

There is an article on Gaz Ellis floating about by Tim Sheens saying he was suprised the level of coaching he needed initially to get him up to an acceptable standard.[/quote]

Agree with most of your points...............but that is a very, very poor point!!!

Are you saying that in just a few weeks, Sheens made Ellis into one of the best, if not the best 2nd rowers on the pitch in his first game........or was that Wakey, Leeds and the Super League!!!???

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:41 pm  

jonh wrote:

In the first 18 months in the game he was injured due to a car crash, then at the age of 33 after very little exposure to the game, and it is a very very different game, he was selected for the World Champions playing several tests, and being selected in the World Cup squad playing in the World Cup finals for his country, who were at the time World Champions and got to the final of said tournament. He was also voted the best player in the World of Rugby League even though he was "past his best", how does that work?

Do you enjoy seeing players you have invested time and money in, in a sport you love basically entering into a code where the best they can hope for is to be picked up by a Union club? I do not.

Jonh they played the name and not the player, publicity stunt, if AF was good enough to play at that level then Unions worse that i thought

Please don't get the wrong idea, AF was a great player for his club and country and a fantastic role model for young players.



Of course not, why would i, but i don't agree with clubs bleating about loosing players when the sign second rate Aussies on huge contracts, thats not aimed at any one player.

Put or own house in order is the first step.

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:45 pm  

RebelRebel wrote:

So why would you recommend any player wanting to make it in union to start with league, where they learn the basic skills of passing and tackling?

In fact, why would union even bother looking at the top league players if these skills are demonstrated to be so poor at international level?

As you say, you couldn't make it up, but it seems you just have....

The standard of junior development is far superior in League, the skills taught to the juniors are far superior in Junior League development. The code is a code suited to developing the handling skills and running game of its players. Union knows this and has shifted its emphasis away from signing experienced players and are now targetting our young players.

Many of these players are nowhere near first team level yet but the Union clubs are targetting them, as I said there are 2 lads in the scholarship at Wakefield 1 who is a real talent who are already being tapped up.

5 years ago i think SL stopped improving as an onfield product, and started going backwards skill and ability wise and has done year on year sadly. The emphasis has shifted from established pro's to talented juniors so while many do not see it they remain oblivious to it, but it is happeneing every year and at every club, even Wakefield.

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:46 pm  

SimonBarrett wrote:

jonh wrote:

I seriously do not think they can, not when put under pressure.

I do not know if you have Setanta but if you get a chance to see any of the NRL games you will see why. At our increasinly pedestrian pace in the competition we can do it fine, up the pace and the intensity to a reasonable level and we are all at see.

SL is very much the comfort zone for players, most of the players that went to Australia would not get a first team contract in the NRL due to the basic level of skill.

There is an article on Gaz Ellis floating about by Tim Sheens saying he was suprised the level of coaching he needed initially to get him up to an acceptable standard.[/quote]

Agree with most of your points...............but that is a very, very poor point!!!

Are you saying that in just a few weeks, Sheens made Ellis into one of the best, if not the best 2nd rowers on the pitch in his first game........or was that Wakey, Leeds and the Super League!!!???

Yes, i was shocked to read the second article that came out in the build up to the first game, given the initial article that was posted on him from Sheens.

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:52 pm  

BIGAL1 wrote:

Jonh they played the name and not the player, publicity stunt, if AF was good enough to play at that level then Unions worse that i thought

Please don't get the wrong idea, AF was a great player for his club and country and a fantastic role model for young players.



Of course not, why would i, but i don't agree with clubs bleating about loosing players when the sign second rate Aussies on huge contracts, thats not aimed at any one player.

Put or own house in order is the first step.

I actually disagree with you i do not think Faz was a great for his country he never produced the form he was capable of.

Once again in his final season at Wigan he was at the top of his form, any Wigan fan will tell you this so I do not see how you can say he was past his best. The way Wigan have capitulated since his departure I think shows just how good he was. If there was a dispensation in the Cap towards home produced players ie Products of the club, Wigan would never have allowed Faz to leave, the fact he took his son with him makes it an ever shorter sighted decision, but Wigan had to cash in, in an attept to strengthen the team in other areas due to shocking mismanagement of the cap, a move that meant as Faz left the paper over the cracks also vanished.

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:53 pm  

BIGAL1 wrote:

Jonh they played the name and not the player, publicity stunt,

Nail on the head there mate

: Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:58 pm  

Gahan wrote:

Nail on the head there mate

Even if it was the case does it not just show how open to the Union code they are.

The fact that they could take the best player in the world and GB captain and take him from League as was there want.

The worrying thing is that now they are after our prospects.