Re: Poor Poor Poor : Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:49 pm  

FickleFingerOfFate wrote:

I genuinely thought Tupou had got rid of his phobia of passing to his winger last season but it appears to have come back.
You only have to look at Charnley at Wire, he's scored something like 10 tries in 8 games since his return. I think Toby King got a telling off at half time when they played against Widnes, because he had the opportunity to pass the ball to Charnley but kept hold of it, in the second half King started giving him the ball and he scored a couple.
This is the problem we have, we have pace on the wings but the ball doesn't get to them, they spend most of their time taking the ball up out of their own 20.
We've got a centre at the club who is the best centre at the club who can tackle and knows how and when to pass to his winger, unfortunately he didn't play tonight.

Tippy is class as a winger not centre

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:56 pm  

[quote="FickleFingerOfFate"]
"We've got a centre at the club who is the best centre at the club who can tackle and knows how and when to pass to his winger, unfortunately he didn't play tonight."
Exactly my thoughts also, what does he have to do to get an extended run in the team.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:58 pm  

Defence and effort was there through out
Can't knock the lads for that

We just lacked a bit of spark and finish in attack
We couldn't get on the front foot

We are a bit flat
Need Dave back to lift the boys for me

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:05 pm  

As a cas fan I was pleased with how PP was fairly anonymous, considering the sheer size of the bloke and he usually picks out a HB to run at.

To then hear he'd got MOM I was absolutely staggered. Not that he was terrible, I just can't think of one time in the game where he stood out.

Errors in the first half and penalties in the second put paid to your chances of winning. I assume it was a similar performance at Salford last week.... Salford were awful yesterday but Wakefield are making that many mistakes, that it explains why you lost to such a poor side. You just can't keep making so many basic errors.

Obstruction "try" looked really harsh... There's no consistency there whatsoever. About 5 years ago obstruction turned into a real joke, but it seemed to get put right and settle down after half a season or so. This year it's creeping back in again.

There were also 4 penalties for "tackled in the air" when in my opinion all 4 were just contests for the ball.

I think every team's backs in the league are jumping to catch the ball then purposely letting their legs go from under them as soon as they get contact from a defender. I'm maybe being a bit pedantic but there's so many penalties for that this year.

Honestly thought we were easily the better side despite having a proper mangled back line.... Not cause we were great, but I thought we managed the game well. Wakefield were never giving themselves a chance with all the errors and penalties, and I thought our kicking game was superb. I think we maybe forced about 7 drop outs

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:05 pm  

Some of the comments on here are a joke?!? Blaming Tupou is laughable. We simply aren’t good enough and it’s simple as that. So called big forwards dominated so how are the wingers ever going to get a chance on the smallest pitch is SL? The fact is Gale & Webster went off yet they have McShane who steps up and leads the team. Don’t get me wrong I agree in playing youth but we looked lost in attack, predicable at the best of times. Whether in expecting too much based on last season who knows. The key difference is cas can play average and grind wins out, unfortunately Wakefield cannot.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:32 pm  

wakefield1990 wrote:

Some of the comments on here are a joke?!? Blaming Tupou is laughable. We simply aren’t good enough and it’s simple as that. So called big forwards dominated so how are the wingers ever going to get a chance on the smallest pitch is SL? The fact is Gale & Webster went off yet they have McShane who steps up and leads the team. Don’t get me wrong I agree in playing youth but we looked lost in attack, predicable at the best of times. Whether in expecting too much based on last season who knows. The key difference is cas can play average and grind wins out, unfortunately Wakefield cannot.

Spot on with most of it mate but the Cas pitch is slightly shorter than yours but is ok width wise which shouldn't effect your wingers. In fact your most creative player tonight(Randell) used it to your advantage with the 40/20. Maybe get used to playing on small pitches if you end up at Dewsbury.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:26 am  

newgroundb4wakey wrote:

Well I've read all through the thread and I think you've summed it up best mate. The effort certainly was there from most and I thought pauli put a real shift in but the Cas pack did look stronger in both attack and defence.
I think you do have a very decent squad especially in the backs . However you have just given a big contract to Miller who hasn't an ounce of creativity in him. No way will you finish in the bottom 4 (theres an interesting mini competition building between you and Salford) but if you want to compete for the top 4 rather than just be content to be in Super League you have to aim higher than Miller.

A lot of people gave it the "oh this Wakey pack is big" at the start of the season e.t.c and I even bought into it. But upon reflection there is only Fifita who can mix it with the big boys. The rest are simply average or less. That's the truth of it and you only have to see it week in and week out for the evidence. The simple fact is at Wakefield we have classy backs. Johnstone, Tupou, BJB, MCB, Arundel and Lyne have all shown that they have class. For me the big question is down the middle. We lose the ruck constantly and our contact and line speed is crap.

In attack we lack depth, we don't run on to the ball, we don't have a last tackle option, we can't kick, we don't pass when we draw a defender and we don't even pass accurately (above the head or below the knees).

What concerns me about tonight is the fact that the players actually tried. They tried against a cas side missing Eden, Gale and Roberts and still didn't look like winning at any point. It was all too easy. Paul McShane made Reece Lyne look like he was running through treacle. I've been really optimistic all year. Even when we lost to Wigan, Warrington and Leeds I came away thinking we could have won that and I think we'll finish top 6. Tonight I wanted to turn the TV off after 65 minutes as I knew there was no coming back. The attacking structure is a shambles and for me that lies with the coach and the attack has been crap all year. Let's not gloss over that. The defence could be worse but the attack. Jesus. Out the back once, out the back again... die with the ball. Repeat. Run the ball on the last tackle... turnover. Kicking game? Crap. Pretty disillusioned with that.

Pauli Pauli - well done. Looked like he wanted to be there, put a good stint in. Was treated harshly by Hicks for 2 of the pens I thought.

Jowitt - Want the lad to do well. Thought he would. Don't know if he can make it and never have. Can you rely on his abilities as a fullback?

Hampshire/Miller - Kicking game is crap even with Finn so not gonna slate Rocky for it. Miller has been garbage for half of this year now. Never draws his man before passing the ball. Always passes it with another 10 yard infront of him. Is he scared?

Randell/Wood - Classy players. Should build the pack around them.

Pretty disillusioned after that. I saw the same mistakes and the same structures which makes me question the coaching. Sick of seeing players receive the ball on a standing start and sick of seeing the same set play. If dumb spectators that apparently know nothing about rugby can see this then why can't coaching staff? And if they can see it, why is nothing changing?

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:30 am  

I didn't see much to inspire or offer much hope. I have no idea what can be achieved by the present squad but I'm bloody sure they are better than the last 2 performances.
They seem to be together we just lack leadership and guile with ball in hand, I don't think they lack effort but without control in attack your efforts tend to be while defending. Its great to give youth a run out and an extended run but can we afford to persist and keep losing.
Im still not sure of the first 17 and im not sure CC does.
Consitancy from the players is lacking and team selection becomes a lottery.
For me the club must just get back to controled rugby and bulid on that,
If the last 2 performances take a hold it could result in major problems but I feel we have the ability to get things going.
I honestly thought our performances against HULL and LEEDS showed plenty of promise and we had nothing to worry about during our loosing run in general. NOW IM NOT SO SURE

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:23 am  

We are missing big Dave big time, he's the only tackle buster in the pack & hopefully will lift the rest of the pack. I can't imagine what our completion rate was in the first half? PP had a shocker against Leeds & got rightly slated but Hirst had a stinking first half & nothing gets said?

Felt for Annekin when he finally got his chance & god knows what Arundel has to do to get an extended run. Still I thought it was a massive defensive effort, Cas were getting repeat sets for fun which we can only dream of. We are sadly lacking in the halves at the moment. CC must be pulling his hair out, none of them are playing well. For all the talk of the control Finn gives us, he isn't at the moment. I realise he is injured but he wasn't playing well before he bust it.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:23 am  

Adam_Harrison9 wrote:

newgroundb4wakey wrote:

Well I've read all through the thread and I think you've summed it up best mate. The effort certainly was there from most and I thought pauli put a real shift in but the Cas pack did look stronger in both attack and defence.
I think you do have a very decent squad especially in the backs . However you have just given a big contract to Miller who hasn't an ounce of creativity in him. No way will you finish in the bottom 4 (theres an interesting mini competition building between you and Salford) but if you want to compete for the top 4 rather than just be content to be in Super League you have to aim higher than Miller.

A lot of people gave it the "oh this Wakey pack is big" at the start of the season e.t.c and I even bought into it. But upon reflection there is only Fifita who can mix it with the big boys. The rest are simply average or less. That's the truth of it and you only have to see it week in and week out for the evidence. The simple fact is at Wakefield we have classy backs. Johnstone, Tupou, BJB, MCB, Arundel and Lyne have all shown that they have class. For me the big question is down the middle. We lose the ruck constantly and our contact and line speed is crap.

In attack we lack depth, we don't run on to the ball, we don't have a last tackle option, we can't kick, we don't pass when we draw a defender and we don't even pass accurately (above the head or below the knees).

What concerns me about tonight is the fact that the players actually tried. They tried against a cas side missing Eden, Gale and Roberts and still didn't look like winning at any point. It was all too easy. Paul McShane made Reece Lyne look like he was running through treacle. I've been really optimistic all year. Even when we lost to Wigan, Warrington and Leeds I came away thinking we could have won that and I think we'll finish top 6. Tonight I wanted to turn the TV off after 65 minutes as I knew there was no coming back. The attacking structure is a shambles and for me that lies with the coach and the attack has been crap all year. Let's not gloss over that. The defence could be worse but the attack. Jesus. Out the back once, out the back again... die with the ball. Repeat. Run the ball on the last tackle... turnover. Kicking game? Crap. Pretty disillusioned with that.

Pauli Pauli - well done. Looked like he wanted to be there, put a good stint in. Was treated harshly by Hicks for 2 of the pens I thought.

Jowitt - Want the lad to do well. Thought he would. Don't know if he can make it and never have. Can you rely on his abilities as a fullback?

Hampshire/Miller - Kicking game is crap even with Finn so not gonna slate Rocky for it. Miller has been garbage for half of this year now. Never draws his man before passing the ball. Always passes it with another 10 yard infront of him. Is he scared?

Randell/Wood - Classy players. Should build the pack around them.

Pretty disillusioned after that. I saw the same mistakes and the same structures which makes me question the coaching. Sick of seeing players receive the ball on a standing start and sick of seeing the same set play. If dumb spectators that apparently know nothing about rugby can see this then why can't coaching staff? And if they can see it, why is nothing changing?

come on you had a better team than Wigan not long ago?

Wakefield beat Wigan 2 out of 3 times last season and also finished above them in the table. This would suggest that Wakefield on the whole over the last 12 months have better players on a man to man basis.

Here's my thoughts man for man:

Tomkins - Quality player in the past... seems to have started well this year but has he been better than Grix (who has been immense for Wakefield right up until yesterday)? Probably not but he is a ore "fashionable" player. But why would I pick him over a player who hasn't put a foot wrong?

Davies/Burgess/Marshall - Johnstone is better than all 3 and I'd say MCB and BJB are just as good as them as well. Close to call.

Gildart - Really like him and I think he'd get in the Wakefield side over Lyne/Arundel (two players who haven't let us down as well may I add!)

Sarginson - Bit of an unknown as regards current form as went to Australia but like you say, I'd take Tupou as I think Tupou is one of the best centres in the league at the minute.

Williams - Again, fashionable player. Had an excellent season a couple of seasons ago - last year he wasn't all that. If he plays to the best of his ability then yes I'd have him over Finn but Finn has an advantage over Williams upstairs. He's got a better rugby brain and he controls a game better than Williams. Has Williams been better than Finn for the last 12 months? As someone who sees Finn week in week out and sees Williams whenever he is on telly - I'd doubt he has been.

Leuluai/Escare - Are either better than Miller? No. Escare I quite like but he hasn't been as good as Miller.

Powell - I'd rather have Kyle Wood or Tyler Randall any day tbh. I don't rate Powell at all.

Bateman - He would get in our side as he is better than Horo/Kirmond

Farrell - Again, a fashionable name but has he been better than Matty Ashurst? No. I'd take Ashurst all day long.

Clubb - I like Clubb but he doesn't play big minutes and Fifita is a far better Prop.

Flower - Is he really any better than Huby or England or Fifita or Pauli Pauli? Again, pretty evenly matched here in terms of quality in my opinion.

O'Loughlin - Quality player - misses a lot of games. Probably not the player he was a few years ago? Tinirau Arona plays loose for us atm. Arona made 50 odd tackles against Catalan last week - 2 interchanges down - he missed zero of those. O'Loughlin is the fashionable Rugby League name but again when it comes to it - on current form is he miles better than Arona? Not for me. It's a close one.

Where Wigan do have the upper hand is there depth and the conveyor belt of youngsters they have that are of a quality standard. Even in that department Wakefield are catching up bringing through the likes of Jowitt, Batchelor, Crowther in recent years and Luke Hooley on the fringes this year with Ackroyd.