Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:29 am  

Tricky2309 wrote:

Over the course of a season or a cup competition the money you spend on the cap clearly has an impact, those who spend more have higher quality players who can play at a high level consistently rather than occasionally and they usually have more strength in depth so they can rotate the players throughout the season and cover injuries better.

The league table doesn’t lie apart from us and Leeds being in the different positions than you would expect, the bottom 4 are all the ones who spend least on the cap.

That says to me that we are overachieving and Leeds underachieving albeit partly due to us getting better value than Leeds from the money we spend but if Leeds hadn’t had the injuries they have had, IMO even with the squad they currently have, they would have finished top 8

ok I respect your opinion on this, so lets pay the players more money so we pay up to the cap that should sort our league position then

you seemed to have contradicted your self ie the league table doesn't lie, Leeds are where they are because they have played crap few injuries yes but they are supposed to be a team that spends to the cap and be full of far better players in the ranks waiting, well its not looking too good for them is it, mention Leeds and you automatically expect them to be favourites well not any more, I see them as two points for the taking which we just failed to do, poor for the game but they are in a bad position that could see them being in the MPG which I expect them to win but boy is this going to be a game and a half

I keep hearing the name bogey team, we always seem to lose to them, well Huddersfield seems to give you a feeling as soon as you turn up we've lost, well I don't buy it to that either

we either change the mentality within or the club keeps just plodding along and the players except they are just not as good as the others

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:39 am  

snowie wrote:

ok I respect your opinion on this, so lets pay the players more money so we pay up to the cap that should sort our league position then

you seemed to have contradicted your self ie the league table doesn't lie, Leeds are where they are because they have played crap few injuries yes but they are supposed to be a team that spends to the cap and be full of far better players in the ranks waiting, well its not looking too good for them is it, mention Leeds and you automatically expect them to be favourites well not any more, I see them as two points for the taking which we just failed to do, poor for the game but they are in a bad position that could see them being in the MPG which I expect them to win but boy is this going to be a game and a half

I keep hearing the name bogey team, we always seem to lose to them, well Huddersfield seems to give you a feeling as soon as you turn up we've lost, well I don't buy it to that either

we either change the mentality within or the club keeps just plodding along and the players except they are just not as good as the others

Come on snowie you know I wasn’t suggesting paying average players more, you sign better players because you spend more money which means some of your guaranteed starters now become decent squad players and allow you to rotate.

I am not contradicting myself re Leeds, they have been short of forwards especially front rowers for considerable parts of the season. Throw in Callum Watkins and it is not difficult to see that some of the close defeats they have had with a full squad available would have been wins and they would be in the 8.

I also acknowledged that they are not getting best value for money from their cap spend.

Comparing us with Catalans imo is wrong because quality wise they have a better 17 then us and that is largely due to the money they spent on assembling it.

Unfortunately, with our current situation whether we like it or not we have to accept that finishing top 8 3 years in a row is progress. Most of us on here have been supporting Wakey long enough to realise that achievement for what it is. Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that.

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:35 am  

Tricky2309 wrote:

Come on snowie you know I wasn’t suggesting paying average players more, you sign better players because you spend more money which means some of your guaranteed starters now become decent squad players and allow you to rotate.

I am not contradicting myself re Leeds, they have been short of forwards especially front rowers for considerable parts of the season. Throw in Callum Watkins and it is not difficult to see that some of the close defeats they have had with a full squad available would have been wins and they would be in the 8.

I also acknowledged that they are not getting best value for money from their cap spend.

Comparing us with Catalans imo is wrong because quality wise they have a better 17 then us and that is largely due to the money they spent on assembling it.

Unfortunately, with our current situation whether we like it or not we have to accept that finishing top 8 3 years in a row is progress. Most of us on here have been supporting Wakey long enough to realise that achievement for what it is. Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that.

Do they? I very much believe Catalans are a teams of average players who are in outstanding form, it's not very different to what side started all the way back in round 1 and just look how different the performances have been.

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:44 am  

RyanHick wrote:

Do they? I very much believe Catalans are a teams of average players who are in outstanding form, it's not very different to what side started all the way back in round 1 and just look how different the performances have been.

Wrong IMO, they are a team full of talent that were massively under performing, for whatever reason they have now turned it around and look to be playing to there potential.

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:27 am  

homme vaste wrote:

Wrong IMO, they are a team full of talent that were massively under performing, for whatever reason they have now turned it around and look to be playing to there potential.

Fair point, probably was harsh for me to call them average however. I do not think they have a better 17 than us, much closer!

I would say 8 of our players are better than there; leaving 9 players better than our own and I do believe we could have an argument for Lyne and Randell when on form.

Gigot vs Jowitt
Tierney vs Jones-Bishop
Mead vs Lyne
Wiliame vs Tupou
Yaha vs Johnstone

Langi vs Miller
Drinkwater vs Hampshire

Simon vs Hirst
McIlorum vs Randell
Moa vs Fifita
Jullien vs Ashurst
Garcia vs Batchelor
Casty vs Horo

Interchanges:

Bousquet vs Pauli
Anderson vs Arona
Edwards vs Wood
Baitieri vs Huby

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:41 am  

RyanHick wrote:

Fair point, probably was harsh for me to call them average however. I do not think they have a better 17 than us, much closer!

I would say 8 of our players are better than there; leaving 9 players better than our own and I do believe we could have an argument for Lyne and Randell when on form.

Gigot vs Jowitt
Tierney vs Jones-Bishop
Mead vs Lyne
Wiliame vs Tupou
Yaha vs Johnstone

Langi vs Miller
Drinkwater vs Hampshire

Simon vs Hirst
McIlorum vs Randell
Moa vs Fifita
Jullien vs Ashurst
Garcia vs Batchelor
Casty vs Horo

Interchanges:

Bousquet vs Pauli
Anderson vs Arona
Edwards vs Wood
Baitieri vs Huby

I understand team loyalty and all, but that's optimistic at best; Gigot, Mead, Drinkwater, Simon, McIlorum, Moa, Garcia, Casty, Bousquet, Edwards and Baitieri are all better than their WT counterparts; some, by quite some margin.

Catalans are an expensive team of internationals - who couldn't (or wouldn't) play to a system or structure - and who's discipline was absolutely awful; like him or loathe him, MacNamara appears to have sorted out their discipline and instilled some really well drilled structure - as a result, they look very impressive.

Reaching the CC final is potentially problematic for ticket sales, but they are definitely there on merit; they made super Saints look decidedly average - and the player most likely to have Sky commentators wetting their knickers, was completely invisible.

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:42 am  

RyanHick wrote:

Fair point, probably was harsh for me to call them average however. I do not think they have a better 17 than us, much closer!

I would say 8 of our players are better than there; leaving 9 players better than our own and I do believe we could have an argument for Lyne and Randell when on form.

Gigot vs Jowitt
Tierney vs Jones-Bishop
Mead vs Lyne
Wiliame vs Tupou
Yaha vs Johnstone

Langi vs Miller
Drinkwater vs Hampshire

Simon vs Hirst
McIlorum vs Randell
Moa vs Fifita
Jullien vs Ashurst
Garcia vs Batchelor
Casty vs Horo

Interchanges:

Bousquet vs Pauli
Anderson vs Arona
Edwards vs Wood
Baitieri vs Huby

You clearly highlight their spine is better than ours in all those key positions that's why they are better not similar to us but on our budget we play bloody well

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:06 pm  

I'll give you Gigot, Mead and Drinkwater. They are much better than Jowitt, Lyne and Hampshire however I wouldn't say there are leagues between the rest. I think Fifita is much better than Moa as well.

I agree REDWHITEANDBLUE, we play very well for what we spend.

[PopTart]

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:19 pm  

We have some better players but as said above their spine of Gigot, Drinkwater, McIlorum and add Bird in too are way better than their counterparts.
The others may be just good SL standard but with that spine they play to their best. We would need a Drinkwater type to unleash our best.

As much as McNamara is getting some praise, his valuable input has been to recruit a scrum half who can lead and get the others to follow.

Re: proved it can be done : Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:21 pm  

PopTart wrote:

We have some better players but as said above their spine of Gigot, Drinkwater, McIlorum and add Bird in too are way better than their counterparts.
The others may be just good SL standard but with that spine they play to their best. We would need a Drinkwater type to unleash our best.

As much as McNamara is getting some praise, his valuable input has been to recruit a scrum half who can lead and get the others to follow.

Chris Sandow?