Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:05 am  

Few years ago I was watching Super Rugby and come across a lad called Ryan Tongia, he looked class.

In the few games he played for us he seemed to have the X Factor, shame though he was playing in a poor side and looking at his career he never seems to stick around long wherever he goes.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:09 am  

Danny Cowling was another young lad that we wanted to keep at the club, I think he wanted to play part time to pursue studies or something but I thought he had some real potential at centre and was just one of those players that seemed to transition very well into the first team.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:24 am  

Think its fair out all of the players mentioned apart from gilmour and peacock (unless i missed a anyone)havent gone on and achieved anythingbi the game since keaving our youth which to shows there is a hell of a difference between junior rugby and the elite .ive watched alot of junior rugby over the last 8 or 9 years due to both my lads playing and ill be intrested to see if any lads i know /recognise go onto do anything game has i have seen sone good ones

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:49 am  

Luppylad wrote:

Think its fair out all of the players mentioned apart from gilmour and peacock (unless i missed a anyone)havent gone on and achieved anythingbi the game since keaving our youth which to shows there is a hell of a difference between junior rugby and the elite .ive watched alot of junior rugby over the last 8 or 9 years due to both my lads playing and ill be intrested to see if any lads i know /recognise go onto do anything game has i have seen sone good ones

Correct.

It is incredibly difficult to spot a potential pro, its incredibly easy to spot a talented player but they are not the same thing. You have to be able to turn a talent for a sport you enjoy at a youth level into a full-time job and that's not easy. The minute something becomes truly serious ie your career then being gifted isn't always enough.

There are players who are spotted really young and everybody knows they will make it because basically, they are men in boys bodies. Paul Sculthorpe, Andy Farrell and Kevin Sinfield
to name three but they are rare. In their cases, it would have taken a monumental set of cock-ups to stop them progressing. The rest are in degrees, Gareth Ellis had the mentality, what was in doubt was his ability and it happens the other way around.

I'm going to name drop here, I knew the Speak family very well in the '90s. Their son Andy played for Leeds, Cas and ourselves before dropping out of the limelight for good at a ridiculously young age. What some on here may know is that as a junior at Stanley Rangers he was for his age the most sort after player in the game. Incredibly strong, hard as nails and aggressive with an engine that wouldn't stop and great skill.

Leeds paid a fortune to sign him, I know this because I saw the green BMW he spent his signing fee on, a car he promptly crashed!

Years later I asked him why he stopped so young when everyone was certain he'd be an international. Being Andy he wasn't very direct but between the lines, he basically said it was too much like work but not the work he wanted to do and he just didn't enjoy it anymore. It just wasn't what he wanted to do. What he also didn't say but was clearly evident was that as a kid it had all come so easy to a 15-year-old with the body of a 21-year-old. Now things were more equal and to be fair that can drain you when you're used to being top dog.

It wasn't a lack of ticker or ability or anything like that, it simply wasn't what he wanted to do for the next 10 years, nobody saw that coming. I don't think it helped that he suffered some personal tragedies but many of us do. Deep down he just didn't want it whilst less talented players did. He was a landscape gardener with a young daughter I think the last time I saw him and seemed way happier and far more approachable, I think he made the right choice.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:35 am  

vastman wrote:

Correct.

It is incredibly difficult to spot a potential pro, its incredibly easy to spot a talented player but they are not the same thing. You have to be able to turn a talent for a sport you enjoy at a youth level into a full-time job and that's not easy. The minute something becomes truly serious ie your career then being gifted isn't always enough.

There are players who are spotted really young and everybody knows they will make it because basically, they are men in boys bodies. Paul Sculthorpe, Andy Farrell and Kevin Sinfield
to name three but they are rare. In their cases, it would have taken a monumental set of cock-ups to stop them progressing. The rest are in degrees, Gareth Ellis had the mentality, what was in doubt was his ability and it happens the other way around.

I'm going to name drop here, I knew the Speak family very well in the '90s. Their son Andy played for Leeds, Cas and ourselves before dropping out of the limelight for good at a ridiculously young age. What some on here may know is that as a junior at Stanley Rangers he was for his age the most sort after player in the game. Incredibly strong, hard as nails and aggressive with an engine that wouldn't stop and great skill.

Leeds paid a fortune to sign him, I know this because I saw the green BMW he spent his signing fee on, a car he promptly crashed!

Years later I asked him why he stopped so young when everyone was certain he'd be an international. Being Andy he wasn't very direct but between the lines, he basically said it was too much like work but not the work he wanted to do and he just didn't enjoy it anymore. It just wasn't what he wanted to do. What he also didn't say but was clearly evident was that as a kid it had all come so easy to a 15-year-old with the body of a 21-year-old. Now things were more equal and to be fair that can drain you when you're used to being top dog.

It wasn't a lack of ticker or ability or anything like that, it simply wasn't what he wanted to do for the next 10 years, nobody saw that coming. I don't think it helped that he suffered some personal tragedies but many of us do. Deep down he just didn't want it whilst less talented players did. He was a landscape gardener with a young daughter I think the last time I saw him and seemed way happier and far more approachable, I think he made the right choice.

I can believe it what once was somthing you did for fun but it becomes a life...through buiness i know a guy who coached junior rugby at east leeds and as my lads played
Alot of junior rugby we used to discuss things and he alsways said he had players he knew would definitely make it in danny mcguire but he had many lads that he thought would go onto big things but didnt but at the opposite of that he talked about 1 lad that never looked like he would go anywhere in the game but went on to play a fare few sl games for few different clubs

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:17 am  

Interesting this because over the last 3/4 years there has been a lot of moaning about different players not being offerred contracts by the Club and being let go, and yet I cant think of that many that have actually stayed in Super League after us, never mind actually going on to bigger and better things, which to me, shows someone is getting most of these calls correct?

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:50 am  

Henry lined Robbie Paul up to join us but the board didn't want to take the risk.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:53 am  

Jose wrote:

Interesting this because over the last 3/4 years there has been a lot of moaning about different players not being offerred contracts by the Club and being let go, and yet I cant think of that many that have actually stayed in Super League after us, never mind actually going on to bigger and better things, which to me, shows someone is getting most of these calls correct?

Agree 100% players esp the yougs ones who have come through ie chris anakin or luke hooley to name a couple havent gone on and done anything amazing elsewhere and evsn at the other end of the table players like bjb and koppy 2 players i personally like and thought that they went ok esp bjb but they have only gone to championship clubs..think the problem with us mere fans we can tend to forget is that MC And JM have to keep in a budget i would also hazzard a guess and it is a genuine guess some players who have been let go are on more money than some that have been signed/ reatained which them enables other players to be signed/,retained.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:19 pm  

There are so many factors in that step up from youth to senior rugby.

Development is a key factor and also youth coaching.

Most of the last GB side were quartile 3 or 4 in their school years, think it was nearly 70% and also most of them didn’t get scholarship at first round of selection, probably down to lack of physical development compared to some of their peers. Not getting scholarship can end budding careers there and then it they are not mentally prepared/mature enough to realise it isn’t a disaster for them, again, some can’t see that.

I’ve seen loads of super star kids not make it because they struggle to deal with not being the big fish anymore and they also lack the skill set as they have been so dominant in their junior development they haven’t needed them. I get so frustrated when I see teams rely on their star player who is usually a freak for his age just using him to win games rather than to actually develop his skill and improve him as a player. It is so short sighted and unfair on that player even though they don’t think it is at the time.

Embracing that work ethic when stepping up is again key. Too many think they are superstars when they step up when actually they need to realise they are the bottom of the pile again and need to work harder than everyone else in the room.

Above is why I like Aydin he is an absolute grafter.

Coincidently I was catching up with the player I played with and against who went on to achieve more than any other in his career. Chatting about my youngest son who has decided he wants a crack at getting Scholarship and long term ambitions of playing for Trinity in SL.

The lad in question went on to win a World Cup all be it in the union code but he was never the most talented player in our team as kids. Natural athlete but not the best skills.

His exact words were this and I’m quoting from his message directly -

Tell him there are no certainties in this world, but talent without work ethic will always fail. Work ethic with a little talent can go all the way.

It’s advise I try to impart but it holds more credibility coming from someone like him than my as a dad.

That for me separates those that have the potential. It’s a mentality thing. Embracing and understanding that rugby is your profession and continuing to treat it that way when all the other distractions come your way particularly when you first take that step up.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:56 pm  

Jose wrote:

Interesting this because over the last 3/4 years there has been a lot of moaning about different players not being offerred contracts by the Club and being let go, and yet I cant think of that many that have actually stayed in Super League after us, never mind actually going on to bigger and better things, which to me, shows someone is getting most of these calls correct?

That moaning has been going on for years and in Ted's day there was occasionally an element of truth but only occasionally. Trinity fans have a martyr complex where suddenly any player or even coach who leaves suddenly becomes said martyr. Even though nobody seemed to rate any of the above until they left, very odd.

As you say the vast majority have disappeared, those that didn't were generally replaced by as good or better. People just can't seem to accept that some players just fit some teams/clubs.

The number of times I've heard people on here state 'this player will come back to haunt us' is endless. Yet in all our time in SL the only player who did was Gareth Ellis. Not just because he always played brilliantly but because it was so clear what we had let go but then we all knew that. Maybe Paul March and Westwood and one or two others gave us a tough time when they played us but only every now and then but you'd hardly call it a haunting.

Nope, despite the carping of fans, we've lost very few homegrown players who would have really have made a difference based on what they did post Trinity.