Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:12 pm  

I'll be honest I don't know anything about him, but he sounds like the type of overseas player we usually get good service from.

Thinking along the lines of Slattery, MacGillivray, Henderson, Arona even Poching himself.

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:11 pm  

vastman wrote:

Why is he a development players! Why is he a utility player, he’s clearly a prop who has dabbled.

I agree about the utility but we’ve always done that but to call Pitts a prop is pushing it, absolute emergencies only. Kay was a fluke discovery. The rest I agree.
.

Pretty sure Pitt’s played 3 years largely at prop for London , fair comment re development player comment - what I perhaps should have said a more established. Player.

Wasn’t really criticising the club because with a smaller than most squad we need them

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:53 am  

Kirmudgeonlyisback wrote:

Pretty sure Pitt’s played 3 years largely at prop for London , fair comment re development player comment - what I perhaps should have said a more established. Player.

Wasn’t really criticising the club because with a smaller than most squad we need them

I think the point I’ve been trying to make and heaven knows I’ve been wrong in the past is that the day of the specialist forward is being eroded.

Even Saints don’t run with the six out and out props some on here want, total props like Walmesley are becoming quite rare.

I think it’s part cost, part the way the game is now played and part a lack of big men with big hearts.

I think most clubs are happy to have 2 or 3 out and out props and the rest as the so called middles which is where Pitts comes in. I suppose at London he was propping more often but much of that was Championship I believe?

In a way it’s a godsend for teams like us. Only two types of forwards. The bigger men up the middle the slightly smaller more agile down the channels. Middles and wides I suppose you call them.

A key change for us is ball handling, usually the job of the LF. We now have a number of forwards who can handle the ball and create. Arona, Pitts, Walker, Crowther and apparently Sid and Whitbread to name a few.

Will it work? It better! The theory is sound imho but if it’s not executed with commitment then we could be in bother.

Anyway that seems to be the route we’ve gone so no turning back now.

As for the Aussies then this lad is a punt like Sid all be it one with a bit more prestige attached, but the days of signing top players seems to have gone for most clubs.

Now watch us sign a superstar somehow

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:24 am  

I genuinely think the game is changing hugely, especially with the game speeding up and rule changes ie 6 again etc. Before going to the NRL, Luke Thompson was head and shoulders above anything in SL at just over 16 stone and 6 foot. Paul Galen has a similar stature and would muller anything over here even in the later stages of his career. JakeTrbojevic playing prop in SOO when throughout his career shows that being a prop is a lot more then just lumbering up. Although Walmsley is the best and one of if not the biggest in SL, I think that’s also testament to him being in an excellent side like St’s who use him to great effect. That said, there are still some proper monsters in the NRL, who are ridiculously athletic ie big Nelson at the Storm.

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:48 am  

Pat Bateman wrote:

I genuinely think the game is changing hugely, especially with the game speeding up and rule changes ie 6 again etc. Before going to the NRL, Luke Thompson was head and shoulders above anything in SL at just over 16 stone and 6 foot. Paul Galen has a similar stature and would muller anything over here even in the later stages of his career. JakeTrbojevic playing prop in SOO when throughout his career shows that being a prop is a lot more then just lumbering up. Although Walmsley is the best and one of if not the biggest in SL, I think that’s also testament to him being in an excellent side like St’s who use him to great effect. That said, there are still some proper monsters in the NRL, who are ridiculously athletic ie big Nelson at the Storm.

There will always be a place for the huge forwards but they will have to have more than just size.

We've just let go of a player who is the epitome of why the 'big' men are going out of fashion. Chris Green is a huge man and he can play when he wants to, but that as shown was pretty rare. There are far too many like him and I think WP and other more enlightened coaches are sick of them, I would be. A smaller more versatile player who is 100% all the time is worth ten Greens IMHO.

I'm hoping the physical arms race is dying down and coaches look for players who can play and are committed and don't depend on two stone of extra muscle to get picked.

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:06 am  

Nothing better for me than a huge forward swotting players off on a barnstorming run , would hate to see the game turn into a one size fits all where all the players look like they’ve come off a production line Nothing better than a little half back running rings around the opposition ( rob burrows)

[PopTart]

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:15 am  

vastman wrote:

There will always be a place for the huge forwards but they will have to have more than just size.

We've just let go of a player who is the epitome of why the 'big' men are going out of fashion. Chris Green is a huge man and he can play when he wants to, but that as shown was pretty rare. There are far too many like him and I think WP and other more enlightened coaches are sick of them, I would be. A smaller more versatile player who is 100% all the time is worth ten Greens IMHO.

I'm hoping the physical arms race is dying down and coaches look for players who can play and are committed and don't depend on two stone of extra muscle to get picked.

I agree, but size does matter in the pack. These days you need skills and fitness too, but if you have a big pack who can handle the stamina side of the game, you'll have the advantage.

People on here often talk about Belly or Richard Slater. Great players who gave their call and were vital to their respective teams.
But if the whole pack was made up of Richard Slaters, you'd lose every game.
It's all about balance.

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:27 pm  

There is no doubting that saints successful season is in no part to a great team running behind a big mobile go forward pack , and walmsley being a major part of that go forwards and if defenders were not totally committed they were left in his wake . In the forwards at least a good big un has the upper hand on a good little un everyday of the week in my book . It’s no coincidence that les cats trampled all before them with a big forwards pack and good half’s which other teams just couldn’t match for grunt

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:29 pm  

For me, you need a combination of the two, the barnstorming running props, with those of a good engine, mixed in.

I think when he was fit, England, though a big unit, had a good engine. He and Fifita complimented each other very well

Re: Whitbread - we have our forward? : Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:01 pm  

Jai Whitbread is a decent sized prop at 6 ft 1 tall and nearly 17 stones. Think he’s our second biggest prop in the squad behind big DF.?

I agree with other posters that he has some NRL experience, youth at only 23 and evidence of versatility in the pack. With a smaller squad that versatility may become important.

Hoping he goes well and is in Trinity colours for years to come!