[PopTart]

Re: Corona Virus : Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:19 pm  

But Adam, my point is, knowing it could happen again is not the same as spending money in case it does.
If we had empty wards and unused ventilators over the past 17 years I'm pretty sure the Times would also blow that story open too.
There is always an alternative. You have to pick one and go.

Re: Corona Virus : Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:17 pm  

Wildmoggy wrote:

I'm pretty sure a few days ago, Mr. Hancock said it wasn't about supply & demand, it was about distribution and the speed of it actually getting where it needs to be?

I'm pretty sure it is.
As I have mentioned I work in the supply chain.
It has to be "supply and demand" Everyone wants PPE. Not everyone will get it.

Re: Corona Virus : Sun Apr 19, 2020 5:32 pm  

All this hindsight stuff is naivety at best - Google 'Operation Cygnus' and educate yourself; all the lessons and warnings were there - including very specifically that the NHS did not have enough ventilators - but the Govt chose to ignore the report; it's not a huge leap to work out that the reason they did that, is entirely what Adam is trying to explain - cost.

That, and the murderous 'herd immunity' strategy, have caused thousands of needless and avoidable deaths, particularly of the most vulnerable people in society; so to say this is not political, and to excuse the current administration because "now is not the time" suggests a level of subservience that is pretty much exactly what they are relying on to avoid being held to account.

Re: Corona Virus : Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:00 pm  

Yawn

Re: Corona Virus : Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:21 pm  

bren2k wrote:

All this hindsight stuff is naivety at best - Google 'Operation Cygnus' and educate yourself; all the lessons and warnings were there - including very specifically that the NHS did not have enough ventilators - but the Govt chose to ignore the report; it's not a huge leap to work out that the reason they did that, is entirely what Adam is trying to explain - cost.

That, and the murderous 'herd immunity' strategy, have caused thousands of needless and avoidable deaths, particularly of the most vulnerable people in society; so to say this is not political, and to excuse the current administration because "now is not the time" suggests a level of subservience that is pretty much exactly what they are relying on to avoid being held to account.

Not heard anybody say that we have run out of ventilators

Re: Corona Virus : Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:45 pm  

bren2k wrote:

All this hindsight stuff is naivety at best - Google 'Operation Cygnus' and educate yourself; all the lessons and warnings were there - including very specifically that the NHS did not have enough ventilators - but the Govt chose to ignore the report; it's not a huge leap to work out that the reason they did that, is entirely what Adam is trying to explain - cost.

That, and the murderous 'herd immunity' strategy, have caused thousands of needless and avoidable deaths, particularly of the most vulnerable people in society; so to say this is not political, and to excuse the current administration because "now is not the time" suggests a level of subservience that is pretty much exactly what they are relying on to avoid being held to account.

Wasn't OP Cygnus to test the response the NHS to a UK pandemic of influenza?

Covid whilst a member of the Corona family is a much wider test of the NHS as this is a world pandemic with every country struggling did you see the miles of ambulances in Moscow unable to get into hospitals with patients, the Japanese Health service at break point I could go on.
I am not defending the Govt I have lost my father law to this it's a mucher bigger problem than the one you highlighted in my humble opinion.

Re: Corona Virus : Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:14 pm  

bren2k wrote:

All this hindsight stuff is naivety at best - Google 'Operation Cygnus' and educate yourself; all the lessons and warnings were there - including very specifically that the NHS did not have enough ventilators - but the Govt chose to ignore the report; it's not a huge leap to work out that the reason they did that, is entirely what Adam is trying to explain - cost.

That, and the murderous 'herd immunity' strategy, have caused thousands of needless and avoidable deaths, particularly of the most vulnerable people in society; so to say this is not political, and to excuse the current administration because "now is not the time" suggests a level of subservience that is pretty much exactly what they are relying on to avoid being held to account.

Your post is naive.
The Hospitals/ITU's around the country had enough vents. This is the part of the industry that I work in.
But no country had enough vents for Covid-19.
If you feel the need for me to go through the in's and out's re Ventilators, drop me a pm I would be happy to go through it with you.

Re: Corona Virus : Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:48 am  

BarnsleyGull wrote:

I'm pretty sure it is.
As I have mentioned I work in the supply chain.
It has to be "supply and demand" Everyone wants PPE. Not everyone will get it.

Well you are obviously closer to the actual reality of this than him? He has been ill advised and his comments are either blatant lies or what then?! The interview took place on the 11th April I think, then 3 or 4 days later it's 'common' knowledge there simply aren't enough?! I don't know, all I do is, stop this at source and it doesn't ever reach this stage, easier said than done i'm sure, but as you mentioned in a previous post about SARS, surely that was some kind of a red flag, some warning that something far worse was just a matter of time, until something was done in the far east. The origin of this outbreak if you like could only have occurred in a certain part of the world because they just don't adhere to hygienic practices and rules? They get away with it and now we are paying the price.

Re: Corona Virus : Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:57 am  

Wildmoggy wrote:

Well you are obviously closer to the actual reality of this than him? He has been ill advised and his comments are either blatant lies or what then?! The interview took place on the 11th April I think, then 3 or 4 days later it's 'common' knowledge there simply aren't enough?! I don't know, all I do is, stop this at source and it doesn't ever reach this stage, easier said than done i'm sure, but as you mentioned in a previous post about SARS, surely that was some kind of a red flag, some warning that something far worse was just a matter of time, until something was done in the far east. The origin of this outbreak if you like could only have occurred in a certain part of the world because they just don't adhere to hygienic practices and rules? They get away with it and now we are paying the price.

He is closer to the reality of it, plus he isn't trying to influence the debate politically either.

Re: Corona Virus : Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:52 pm  

The issues I’ve found with the ventilators is that we have been using anaesthetic machine ventilation quite a lot , which is primarily used for parlayed patient through muscle relaxant drugs, so not advanced enough like the critical care ones for sedated patients who are trying to breath to ween off drugs, or have other advanced breathing needs. Not come across any other ventilator but I wouldn’t want my loved one on something that hasn’t been tried and tested.