Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:10 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Still no news on World Leaders feigning weakness ? Recent example that springs to mind, albeit not influential in the world, is the North Korean leader that fell ill a few months ago. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... lth-latest I seem to remember that the BBC fell for this stunt in April hook line and sinker. You'd think an isolated leader like Kim Jong-un would have far more enemies than Al "Boris" Johnson or even Trump to go ahead with this plan. Now then does this explain why Boris was used as the fall guy for COVID back in April? SAGE minutes - 22nd March 2020 Perceived threat :A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened ; the perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging. Going by todays news it looks like just one or two scientists agree with me on the type of strategy that we should be following then "More than 6,500 scientists and medics have signed an anti-lockdown petition calling for the UK and US to build herd immunity against Covid-19" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tures.html

wrencat1873 wrote: Still no news on World Leaders feigning weakness ? Recent example that springs to mind, albeit not influential in the world, is the North Korean leader that fell ill a few months ago. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... lth-latest I seem to remember that the BBC fell for this stunt in April hook line and sinker. You'd think an isolated leader like Kim Jong-un would have far more enemies than Al "Boris" Johnson or even Trump to go ahead with this plan. Now then does this explain why Boris was used as the fall guy for COVID back in April? SAGE minutes - 22nd March 2020 Perceived threat :A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened ; the perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging. Going by todays news it looks like just one or two scientists agree with me on the type of strategy that we should be following then "More than 6,500 scientists and medics have signed an anti-lockdown petition calling for the UK and US to build herd immunity against Covid-19" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tures.html

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:43 pm  

MatthewTrin wrote: Recent example that springs to mind, albeit not influential in the world, is the North Korean leader that fell ill a few months ago. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... lth-latest I seem to remember that the BBC fell for this stunt in April hook line and sinker. You'd think an isolated leader like Kim Jong-un would have far more enemies than Al "Boris" Johnson or even Trump to go ahead with this plan. Now then does this explain why Boris was used as the fall guy for COVID back in April? SAGE minutes - 22nd March 2020 Perceived threat :A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened ; the perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging. Going by todays news it looks like just one or two scientists agree with me on the type of strategy that we should be following then "More than 6,500 scientists and medics have signed an anti-lockdown petition calling for the UK and US to build herd immunity against Covid-19" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tures.html Is this herd immunity to a "fabricated" pandemic ? I thought that you had said that Covid was "made up" to "re set" the world order.? There may be disagreement on how to deal with the pandemic but, there is pretty broad agreement that it is real or, have you changed your mind ?

MatthewTrin wrote: Recent example that springs to mind, albeit not influential in the world, is the North Korean leader that fell ill a few months ago. https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... lth-latest I seem to remember that the BBC fell for this stunt in April hook line and sinker. You'd think an isolated leader like Kim Jong-un would have far more enemies than Al "Boris" Johnson or even Trump to go ahead with this plan. Now then does this explain why Boris was used as the fall guy for COVID back in April? SAGE minutes - 22nd March 2020 Perceived threat :A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened ; the perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging. Going by todays news it looks like just one or two scientists agree with me on the type of strategy that we should be following then "More than 6,500 scientists and medics have signed an anti-lockdown petition calling for the UK and US to build herd immunity against Covid-19" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tures.html Is this herd immunity to a "fabricated" pandemic ? I thought that you had said that Covid was "made up" to "re set" the world order.? There may be disagreement on how to deal with the pandemic but, there is pretty broad agreement that it is real or, have you changed your mind ?

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:13 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: The distinction between patients dying because of covid 19 and dying with it, in some cases will be impossible to tell. Even those with the virus, will be dying of respiratory failure rather than the virus itself and you're right that some of the numbers have now been "marked down". However, as mentioned in an earlier post, we are approaching the first full winter where the "new" virus is around and it may be wise to wait until we are in the teeth of the storm before passing full judgement on it's effects. Still no news on World Leaders feigning weakness ? But Wrencat, the subject is far more sinister than you make out. Here is an article from Dr Malcolm Kendrick posted 28th of May, and a lot of cases have been and gone since then. Read the paragraph where he states Then, along comes Covid-19, and many of the rules – such as they were – went straight out the window. And this Was every person in a care home now to be diagnosed as dying of the coronavirus ? Well, that was certainly the advice given in several parts of the UK. Maybe you can give an explanation to the above. By Dr Malcolm Kendrick I’ve signed death certificates during Covid-19. Here’s why you can’t trust any of the statistics on the number of victims By Malcolm Kendrick, doctor and author who works as a GP in the National Health Service in England. As an NHS doctor, I’ve seen people die and be listed as a victim of coronavirus without ever being tested for it. But unless we have accurate data, we won’t know which has killed more: the disease or the lockdown? I suppose most people would be somewhat surprised to know that the cause of death, as written on death certificates, is often little more than an educated guess. Most people die when they are old, often over eighty. There is very rarely going to be a post-mortem carried out, which means that, as a doctor, you have a think about the patient’s symptoms in the last two weeks of life or so. You go back over the notes to look for existing medical conditions.  Then, along comes Covid-19, and many of the rules – such as they were – went straight out the window. At one point, it was even suggested that relatives could fill in death certificates, if no-one else was available. Though I am not sure this ever happened. What advice was given? It varied throughout the country, and from coroner to coroner – and from day to day. Was every person in a care home now to be diagnosed as dying of the coronavirus ? Well, that was certainly the advice given in several parts of the UK. Where I work, things were left more open. I discussed things with colleagues and there was very little consensus. I put Covid-19 on a couple of certificates, and not on a couple of others. Based on how the person seemed to die. I do know that other doctors put down Covid-19 on anyone who died from early March onwards. I didn’t. What can be made of the statistics created from data like these? https://www.rt.com/op-ed/490006-death-c ... not-trust/

wrencat1873 wrote: The distinction between patients dying because of covid 19 and dying with it, in some cases will be impossible to tell. Even those with the virus, will be dying of respiratory failure rather than the virus itself and you're right that some of the numbers have now been "marked down". However, as mentioned in an earlier post, we are approaching the first full winter where the "new" virus is around and it may be wise to wait until we are in the teeth of the storm before passing full judgement on it's effects. Still no news on World Leaders feigning weakness ? But Wrencat, the subject is far more sinister than you make out. Here is an article from Dr Malcolm Kendrick posted 28th of May, and a lot of cases have been and gone since then. Read the paragraph where he states Then, along comes Covid-19, and many of the rules – such as they were – went straight out the window. And this Was every person in a care home now to be diagnosed as dying of the coronavirus ? Well, that was certainly the advice given in several parts of the UK. Maybe you can give an explanation to the above. By Dr Malcolm Kendrick I’ve signed death certificates during Covid-19. Here’s why you can’t trust any of the statistics on the number of victims By Malcolm Kendrick, doctor and author who works as a GP in the National Health Service in England. As an NHS doctor, I’ve seen people die and be listed as a victim of coronavirus without ever being tested for it. But unless we have accurate data, we won’t know which has killed more: the disease or the lockdown? I suppose most people would be somewhat surprised to know that the cause of death, as written on death certificates, is often little more than an educated guess. Most people die when they are old, often over eighty. There is very rarely going to be a post-mortem carried out, which means that, as a doctor, you have a think about the patient’s symptoms in the last two weeks of life or so. You go back over the notes to look for existing medical conditions.  Then, along comes Covid-19, and many of the rules – such as they were – went straight out the window. At one point, it was even suggested that relatives could fill in death certificates, if no-one else was available. Though I am not sure this ever happened. What advice was given? It varied throughout the country, and from coroner to coroner – and from day to day. Was every person in a care home now to be diagnosed as dying of the coronavirus ? Well, that was certainly the advice given in several parts of the UK. Where I work, things were left more open. I discussed things with colleagues and there was very little consensus. I put Covid-19 on a couple of certificates, and not on a couple of others. Based on how the person seemed to die. I do know that other doctors put down Covid-19 on anyone who died from early March onwards. I didn’t. What can be made of the statistics created from data like these? https://www.rt.com/op-ed/490006-death-c ... not-trust/

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:40 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Is this herd immunity to a "fabricated" pandemic ?
I thought that you had said that Covid was "made up" to "re set" the world order.?

There may be disagreement on how to deal with the pandemic but, there is pretty broad agreement that it is real or, have you changed your mind ?

I cannot speak for MatthewTrin...but
It is very difficult to discuss the subject without giving the subject a generic name. If we accept that there is a flu (like) virus out there and practically everyone is calling it covid-19 then, just for arguments sake, we call it covid-19 in conversation rather than having to give a long and detailed disclaimer every time we make a reference to the phrase.

I don't believe there is a Lock Ness monster but that does not stop me referring to the “Loch Ness monster”. Also not believing doesn't preclude me from believing there may be something lurking under the water.

For example, I might ask “why doesn't the Lock Ness monster show itself? That question does not mean I believe in the monster, does it?

I think you know that so it's somewhat disingenuous and childish to attempt to trip up anyone who uses the term as a general reference.

Rather typical of you enablers to ignore the serious content of a post just to take a cheap shot over one word.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:23 am  

Miro wrote:

I cannot speak for MatthewTrin...but
It is very difficult to discuss the subject without giving the subject a generic name. If we accept that there is a flu (like) virus out there and practically everyone is calling it covid-19 then, just for arguments sake, we call it covid-19 in conversation rather than having to give a long and detailed disclaimer every time we make a reference to the phrase.

I don't believe there is a Lock Ness monster but that does not stop me referring to the “Loch Ness monster”. Also not believing doesn't preclude me from believing there may be something lurking under the water.

For example, I might ask “why doesn't the Lock Ness monster show itself? That question does not mean I believe in the monster, does it?

I think you know that so it's somewhat disingenuous and childish to attempt to trip up anyone who uses the term as a general reference.

Rather typical of you enablers to ignore the serious content of a post just to take a cheap shot over one word.

Interesting tat you choose the "Loch Ness Monster" analogy which, apart from a few grainy pictures, has never come close to being proven.
Science would seem to suggest that covid19 is indeed a virus similar to the flu virus but, has been scientifically proven to exist.
Interestingly, the total opposite of "Nessie", although, just like some people are with the virus, there are many people desperate to believe that the monster could be real and search all day every day to believe, desperate to post pictures of shadows across the loch or floating logs.
Some even go for full on fakery

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:18 am  

Here's an interesting bit on false positives perception v evidence https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54270373 Here's another from ONS on death stats Covid v Flu and Pneumonia https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511

Here's an interesting bit on false positives perception v evidence https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54270373 Here's another from ONS on death stats Covid v Flu and Pneumonia https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:20 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Is this herd immunity to a "fabricated" pandemic ? I thought that you had said that Covid was "made up" to "re set" the world order.? There may be disagreement on how to deal with the pandemic but, there is pretty broad agreement that it is real or, have you changed your mind ? I don't recall claiming people dying daily of or with a respiratory virus as made up. As specifically for Covid based on the information I've read the balance of evidence would suggest to me this particular virus is real. I am however open minded at all times to change my view if there is eventually enough evidence to show me I'm incorrect. I've spent my time on here questioning the mainstream narrative, government reaction, lockdowns, testing, decision making and source of outbreak. When leaders constantly demonstrate zero intelligence from day one of this pandemic right until today I automatically have to think is this about a virus or something else? On the global reset btw it looks like it they've got themselves a slick website www.greatreset.com

wrencat1873 wrote: Is this herd immunity to a "fabricated" pandemic ? I thought that you had said that Covid was "made up" to "re set" the world order.? There may be disagreement on how to deal with the pandemic but, there is pretty broad agreement that it is real or, have you changed your mind ? I don't recall claiming people dying daily of or with a respiratory virus as made up. As specifically for Covid based on the information I've read the balance of evidence would suggest to me this particular virus is real. I am however open minded at all times to change my view if there is eventually enough evidence to show me I'm incorrect. I've spent my time on here questioning the mainstream narrative, government reaction, lockdowns, testing, decision making and source of outbreak. When leaders constantly demonstrate zero intelligence from day one of this pandemic right until today I automatically have to think is this about a virus or something else? On the global reset btw it looks like it they've got themselves a slick website www.greatreset.com

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:52 pm  

REDWHITEANDBLUE wrote: Here's an interesting bit on false positives perception v evidence https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54270373 Here's another from ONS on death stats Covid v Flu and Pneumonia https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511 I mentioned this problem on page 17 of this thread. Coronavirus testing: What is a false positive? Key message for the RFL If you tested 1,000 people at random for Covid-19 in early September, for example, data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) infection study suggests you should have expected one of them to actually have the virus. With a false positive rate of 0.8% - a figure used by Ms Hartley-Brewer and within the broad range of what we think might be the actual rate for community testing - you would get eight false positives. So in that context, it's true that roughly 90% of positives would be false. The RFL announced today of the 589 tests on players, match officials and staff there were 10 positive results. So with an FPR of 0.8%, in theory around five (or even up to nine) cases could be false positives. I'd be curious to know if any of them have symptoms and whether players are allowed a best out of three positive/negative test result. For the survival of the game it's vital the testing is accurate by only allowing people showing symptoms within the game to take a test. Covid deaths three times higher than flu and pneumonia Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19. Only 394 were due to flu. Deaths from flu have been particularly low this year. Brilliant news on the low death figures for the flu, it's good to know that last years winter flu vaccine worked so effectively, it must be the first time in a long time!

REDWHITEANDBLUE wrote: Here's an interesting bit on false positives perception v evidence https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/54270373 Here's another from ONS on death stats Covid v Flu and Pneumonia https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54463511 I mentioned this problem on page 17 of this thread. Coronavirus testing: What is a false positive? Key message for the RFL If you tested 1,000 people at random for Covid-19 in early September, for example, data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) infection study suggests you should have expected one of them to actually have the virus. With a false positive rate of 0.8% - a figure used by Ms Hartley-Brewer and within the broad range of what we think might be the actual rate for community testing - you would get eight false positives. So in that context, it's true that roughly 90% of positives would be false. The RFL announced today of the 589 tests on players, match officials and staff there were 10 positive results. So with an FPR of 0.8%, in theory around five (or even up to nine) cases could be false positives. I'd be curious to know if any of them have symptoms and whether players are allowed a best out of three positive/negative test result. For the survival of the game it's vital the testing is accurate by only allowing people showing symptoms within the game to take a test. Covid deaths three times higher than flu and pneumonia Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19. Only 394 were due to flu. Deaths from flu have been particularly low this year. Brilliant news on the low death figures for the flu, it's good to know that last years winter flu vaccine worked so effectively, it must be the first time in a long time!

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:56 pm  

MatthewTrin wrote:

I mentioned this problem on page 17 of this thread.

Coronavirus testing: What is a false positive? Key message for the RFL

If you tested 1,000 people at random for Covid-19 in early September, for example, data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) infection study suggests you should have expected one of them to actually have the virus. With a false positive rate of 0.8% - a figure used by Ms Hartley-Brewer and within the broad range of what we think might be the actual rate for community testing - you would get eight false positives. So in that context, it's true that roughly 90% of positives would be false.

The RFL announced today of the 589 tests on players, match officials and staff there were 10 positive results. So with an FPR of 0.8%, in theory around five (or even up to nine) cases could be false positives. I'd be curious to know if any of them have symptoms and whether players are allowed a best out of three positive/negative test result. For the survival of the game it's vital the testing is accurate by only allowing people showing symptoms within the game to take a test.

Covid deaths three times higher than flu and pneumonia

Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19. Only 394 were due to flu.
Deaths from flu have been particularly low this year.

Brilliant news on the low death figures for the flu, it's good to know that last years winter flu vaccine worked so effectively, it must be the first time in a long time!

Covid came in at the end of the flu season, so maybe, those numbers were relatively low.
You will recall the many graphs illustrating "excess" deaths, which, far from overplaying the covid numbers, seemed to be a little on the low side.
Having said that there will certainly be some cases which are put down to covid where other factors are involved, many, many.
However, we still come back to where we are.
Should the plan be to go all out for "herd immunity", which could risk overwhelming the NHS or, risk further significant damage to the economy and try to keep the lid on covid cases.
It's worth remembering that nobody has seen the effects of the "new" virus through the most difficult winter months and there is a very good reason why the Nightingale hospitals were left "ready to go".

Personally, I cant wait until things really start to return to how they were. Overseas trips, watching Trin and most importantly meeting up with friends. Sadly, I think there is a whole load of grief still to come, which could make the "first wave" look like a warm up.

Re: What now for fans watching ? - Covid chat : Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:10 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Interesting tat you choose the "Loch Ness Monster" analogy which, apart from a few grainy pictures, has never come close to being proven.
Science would seem to suggest that covid19 is indeed a virus similar to the flu virus but, has been scientifically proven to exist.
Interestingly, the total opposite of "Nessie", although, just like some people are with the virus, there are many people desperate to believe that the monster could be real and search all day every day to believe, desperate to post pictures of shadows across the loch or floating logs.
Some even go for full on fakery

Whooosh...the analogy wasn't about the LNM.

Hey wrencat, If someone says to you "I moved heaven and earth to get to Belle Vue." Would you reply "well actually, heaven hasn't been proven to exist and as for moving the earth...........

Can't believe I'm bothering to reply to this.