Re: Brough is back : Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:31 pm  

To be fair to Milner he’s a cracking club player but was on a hiding to nowhere today,as were the rest of the team .Myler on the other hand was found out all too often today and is no where near the standard that we need in an England shirt .

Re: Brough is back : Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:32 pm  

dboy wrote:

Picking Milner above Ashurst was simply a joke call. Was Ashurst unavailable through injury?

It’s a sad indictment of British RL that Milner made the squad let alone the 19.
Oliver Holmes, although not international standard (in my opinion) was head and shoulders above both of the two players you mentioned last season.

Re: Brough is back : Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:44 pm  

dboy wrote:

Picking Milner above Ashurst was simply a joke call. Was Ashurst unavailable through injury?

Ashurst wasn't injured.

Re: Brough is back : Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:00 pm  

steadygetyerboots-on wrote:

It’s a sad indictment of British RL that Milner made the squad let alone the 19.
Oliver Holmes, although not international standard (in my opinion) was head and shoulders above both of the two players you mentioned last season.

I know it's subjective and your opinion but in what ways was Holmes head and shoulders above Ashurst last year?

I know most people are going to rate a player from their side more than a player from another especially if they're similar quality, just down to Club affiliation plus seeing a lot more of them, but surely if he was that much better he'd have made the Dream team instead of Ashurst Steady.

Re: Brough is back : Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:21 am  

steadygetyerboots-on wrote:

It’s a sad indictment of British RL that Milner made the squad let alone the 19.
Oliver Holmes, although not international standard (in my opinion) was head and shoulders above both of the two players you mentioned last season.

I might just about accept that Holmes had a better season than Ashurst JUST but head and shoulders! Seriously Steady?

Re: Brough is back : Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:05 am  

Hasn't Holmes played for Scotland before?

Re: Brough is back : Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:35 pm  

I’m sober now so will accept that head & shoulders was a tad enthusiastic! That said, stand by my opinion that Holmes had a better season that either Milner or Ashurst.
As with any player; this is is subjective & I suppose it depends what you want & or expect from a second rower; so for the benefit of this specific debate I obviously went with what I saw; admittedly I saw more of Holmes than Ashurst so view is skewed in his favour, but I also looked at the following:

Tries:
Holmes 9
Ashurst 4

Tackles:
Holmes 710
Ashurst 1058

Missed tackles:
Holmes 29
Ashurst 42

Tackle busts:
Holmes 39
Ashurst 42

Metres:
Holmes 1976
Ashurst 1916

Av. Gain:
Holmes 7.24
Ashurst 6.92

Clean breaks:
Holmes 10
Ashurst 8

Errors:
Holmes 10
Ashurst 18

Offloads:
Holmes 14
Ashurst 9

Penalties:
Holmes 18
Ashurst 28

I think that both Ashurst & Holmes are good, honest players so I won’t be too upset if people see it differently!

Re: Brough is back : Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:58 pm  

steadygetyerboots-on wrote:

I’m sober now so will accept that head & shoulders was a tad enthusiastic! That said, stand by my opinion that Holmes had a better season that either Milner or Ashurst.
As with any player; this is is subjective & I suppose it depends what you want & or expect from a second rower; so for the benefit of this specific debate I obviously went with what I saw; admittedly I saw more of Holmes than Ashurst so view is skewed in his favour, but I also looked at the following:

Tries:
Holmes 9
Ashurst 4

Tackles:
Holmes 710
Ashurst 1058

Missed tackles:
Holmes 29
Ashurst 42

Tackle busts:
Holmes 39
Ashurst 42

Metres:
Holmes 1976
Ashurst 1916

Av. Gain:
Holmes 7.24
Ashurst 6.92

Clean breaks:
Holmes 10
Ashurst 8

Errors:
Holmes 10
Ashurst 18

Offloads:
Holmes 14
Ashurst 9

Penalties:
Holmes 18
Ashurst 28

I think that both Ashurst & Holmes are good, honest players so I won’t be too upset if people see it differently!

Those stats are broadly meaningless without seeing how many appearances and how many minutes they played - but assuming for a minute they're similar, there's nowt between them; two very solid, unspectacular but exceptionally hardworking players - one of whom is in the Dream Team...

Re: Brough is back : Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:02 pm  

Was just thinking Brough and Miller both naturally play down the left, if that is the partnership we are going with, I wonder who will play scrum half?

Re: Brough is back : Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:15 pm  

bren2k wrote:

Those stats are broadly meaningless without seeing how many appearances and how many minutes they played - but assuming for a minute they're similar, there's nowt between them; two very solid, unspectacular but exceptionally hardworking players - one of whom is in the Dream Team...

I cut & paste the stats from a post I made a few weeks back elsewhere & if memory serves Holmes had 20 appearances to Ashursts 30 - which suits each player in certain stats, but like you say Bren it doesn’t take minutes into account or even what their respective coaches ask them to do.