Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:00 am  

imwakefieldtillidie wrote:

No, I know what the rules are and my preference is that our players stuck to them and if other want to risk playing outside them, that's their choice. Our other prop forwards don't have an issue with. And if you I go back to my original point, I also said that there was no need for a quick play the ball. We had field position and we're six in front with just a few minutes left. Even Chris Chester in his post match interview said it was a silly penalty for him to give away. Do you think he was wrong as well?

Again I totally disagree IMHO.

How is it possibly right that one player, in this case Fifita is penalised for an offence virtually none of his peers ever are. RL is a game of split seconds, those suspect PTB' can make all the difference and often do. Why would anyone want one of their players to be the only one not to take advantage, utterly bizzare especially when in this case it was incredibly borderline! If we were to follow your ethos and not take it to the limit on occasions then I hope you enjoy visiting Dewsbury and Batley.

As for CC how do you know thats what he was referring to because I seriously doubt he was. Fifita wanted a quick PTB so we could score and wrap the game up, thats what any sane person would want because the game simply wasn't won and at that point a DG wasn't on IMO. What happened next was a pedantic and imho an unjustified penalty which gifted Salford the ball. What happened next was some sloppy defending, its that which cost us not Fifita who was only doing his job.

Yours is such a negative and defeatist view and its held this club back for years, though clearly i'm not directly blaming you for that. To win you simply have to take a chance and push it but with that comes risk, thats when teams have to man up and fans have to live with it instead of pointing fingers.

I don't know where I got this stat but apperently 90% of tries are either scored because of a breakdown in defences caused by the defending team losing it's formation etc or by an illegal move by the attacking team that has disadvantaged a defender but went unseen by the ref - you simply have to push it to win most games - why do you think they scaled back the VT to just the last play? - it was getting embarrassing for refs that's why.

It's simply a case of Fifita is being picked on for this particular infringement and it's unfair, it's not a heresy to think that.

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:07 am  

In my opinion it’s not about the p t b but the laying on at the tackle with the player looking at the ref that is more important, this should be penalised it slows the game down too much

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:38 am  

vastman wrote:

Again I totally disagree IMHO.

How is it possibly right that one player, in this case Fifita is penalised for an offence virtually none of his peers ever are. RL is a game of split seconds, those suspect PTB' can make all the difference and often do. Why would anyone want one of their players to be the only one not to take advantage, utterly bizzare especially when in this case it was incredibly borderline! If we were to follow your ethos and not take it to the limit on occasions then I hope you enjoy visiting Dewsbury and Batley.

As for CC how do you know thats what he was referring to because I seriously doubt he was. Fifita wanted a quick PTB so we could score and wrap the game up, thats what any sane person would want because the game simply wasn't won and at that point a DG wasn't on IMO. What happened next was a pedantic and imho an unjustified penalty which gifted Salford the ball. What happened next was some sloppy defending, its that which cost us not Fifita who was only doing his job.

Yours is such a negative and defeatist view and its held this club back for years, though clearly i'm not directly blaming you for that. To win you simply have to take a chance and push it but with that comes risk, thats when teams have to man up and fans have to live with it instead of pointing fingers.

I don't know where I got this stat but apperently 90% of tries are either scored because of a breakdown in defences caused by the defending team losing it's formation etc or by an illegal move by the attacking team that has disadvantaged a defender but went unseen by the ref - you simply have to push it to win most games - why do you think they scaled back the VT to just the last play? - it was getting embarrassing for refs that's why.

It's simply a case of Fifita is being picked on for this particular infringement and it's unfair, it's not a heresy to think that.

Chester specifically said in his interview they were setting up for the drop goal.

I think you're probably over thinking this. Fifita is a fantastic prop forward, I just think sometimes he becomes a little bit over exuberant at times and that's when the mistakes come in. I don't mind players taking a risk, but there is a time and a place.

Also, I don't think for a minute he's being picked on, but if he is then there's only one way to stop it. Same goes for any player who feels their a marked man.

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:41 am  

How about the fact that as Fifita was attempting to play the ball he was being pulled down by his shirt. Clear penalty to Wakefield to me.

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:01 am  

[quote="bren2k"]That seems to be the new 'interpretation' of the rule, I suspect to allow what seems to be the holy grail of a quick ptb - because the actual rule says:

"When the ball touches the ground it must be heeled (i.e. backwards) by the tackled player."

It seems that that particular rule has been interpreted out of existence now, since the modern approach is to make the game as quick as possible - such that I'd say 80% of ptb's in any given game are technically illegal; some players are more obvious than others, and I think you're right that Fifita's MO seems to be to exploit the number of people it takes to bring him down, by playing the ball as quickly as possible - which does sometimes look dodgy; he's far from the worst or the only offender though; the much vaunted 'Lockers' for example, has never played the ball correctly in his life, nor did Jamie Peacock, so I maintain that the penalty was incongruous and harsh.

Doesn't it also say a player must regain his feet or is that just something the sky team have said

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:33 am  

thebeagle wrote:

How about the fact that as Fifita was attempting to play the ball he was being pulled down by his shirt. Clear penalty to Wakefield to me.

Haven't seen the incident so can't talk specifics. However, in response to those calling for the letter of the law to be applied to the PTB, I'd suggest that as well as more penalties for incorrect PTBs you'd also see a lot more for very trivial instances of interference that might, theoretically, be deemed to have resulted in a failure to play it correctly. And while James Child might like it, I'm not sure I would.

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:59 am  

Yosemite Sam wrote:

Doesn't it also say a player must regain his feet or is that just something the sky team have said

"The tackled player shall without delay regain his feet where he was tackled, lift the ball clear of the ground, face his opponent’s goal line and drop or place the ball on the ground in front of his foremost foot."

"No part of the tackled player’s person other than his feet should be in contact with the ground when he releases the ball."

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:31 pm  

imwakefieldtillidie wrote:

Chester specifically said in his interview they were setting up for the drop goal.

I think you're probably over thinking this. Fifita is a fantastic prop forward, I just think sometimes he becomes a little bit over exuberant at times and that's when the mistakes come in. I don't mind players taking a risk, but there is a time and a place.

Also, I don't think for a minute he's being picked on, but if he is then there's only one way to stop it. Same goes for any player who feels their a marked man.

I'm the one over thinking it

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:44 pm  

The abject failure of successive referees to properly police the play the ball has led to the current mess we have to endure. The problem has now spread as the ball technically returns to play when it is heeled backwards at the PTB. As that doesn't happen, penalties for moving up too quickly are a lottery. Most teams get off the mark as soon as the tackled player regains his feet.

Has anyone questioned why we have this headlong pursuit to increase the speed of the game. It is already the quickest and most physical game on earth. Perhaps the whole game would benefit from being slowed down slightly and played at a less frantic tempo. This would probably allow that more gifted players that extra millisecond of time to weave their magic. At the moment the game has been dumbed down to whoever is quickest off the mark. We could look at Union, they take about 5 minutes for a scrum and 2 minutes for a lineout once the players have had a little huddle. Successive players then dive to the ground with the ball to achieve 227 phases of play until a penalty is given. And yet they still get crowds prepared to pay for almost 10 minutes of action out of 80 and the way the BBC is wetting itself over the Six Nations defies belief.

But perhaps we are missing the point. The slower pace of Union allows for a more measured, considered, intelligent commentary even though there is no action to discuss. Then again, with the peerless Eddie, Baz & Tez, perhaps we do need to speed the game up further.

Re: Good ref : Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:46 pm  

I much prefer RL to RU and RU at international level tends to be a more negative experience. The difference being at club level R U come along way from the kick and run churned out 10 years ago.
The international games are more of an event and attract many spectators who have little or no interest in the game itself. The corporate sides excellent more often than not booked well in advance.
Trying to book a corporate event at Wembley for the cc a nightmare and not inviting.
I don't think RL will ever be able to provide the full package to anyone without an interest in the sport.