Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:27 am  

At the beginning of the season I had nagging doubts this season, last year some of the big names didn't fire, this season they are. Have we been Sussed? Last season no one expected us to play as we did. In my humble opinion the biggest loss for me has been John Kear, I've no idea what he did at the club but he was always a sharp cookie and we can't fail to miss him. In a perfect world money wise I'd like to see a Danny Brought type of playmaker brought in, someone who can move us round the pitch and can kick the opposition to death.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:34 am  

stpatricks wrote:

come on you had a better team than Wigan not long ago?

Wakefield beat Wigan 2 out of 3 times last season and also finished above them in the table. This would suggest that Wakefield on the whole over the last 12 months have better players on a man to man basis.

Here's my thoughts man for man:

Tomkins - Quality player in the past... seems to have started well this year but has he been better than Grix (who has been immense for Wakefield right up until yesterday)? Probably not but he is a ore "fashionable" player. But why would I pick him over a player who hasn't put a foot wrong?

Davies/Burgess/Marshall - Johnstone is better than all 3 and I'd say MCB and BJB are just as good as them as well. Close to call.

Gildart - Really like him and I think he'd get in the Wakefield side over Lyne/Arundel (two players who haven't let us down as well may I add!)

Sarginson - Bit of an unknown as regards current form as went to Australia but like you say, I'd take Tupou as I think Tupou is one of the best centres in the league at the minute.

Williams - Again, fashionable player. Had an excellent season a couple of seasons ago - last year he wasn't all that. If he plays to the best of his ability then yes I'd have him over Finn but Finn has an advantage over Williams upstairs. He's got a better rugby brain and he controls a game better than Williams. Has Williams been better than Finn for the last 12 months? As someone who sees Finn week in week out and sees Williams whenever he is on telly - I'd doubt he has been.

Leuluai/Escare - Are either better than Miller? No. Escare I quite like but he hasn't been as good as Miller.

Powell - I'd rather have Kyle Wood or Tyler Randall any day tbh. I don't rate Powell at all.

Bateman - He would get in our side as he is better than Horo/Kirmond

Farrell - Again, a fashionable name but has he been better than Matty Ashurst? No. I'd take Ashurst all day long.

Clubb - I like Clubb but he doesn't play big minutes and Fifita is a far better Prop.

Flower - Is he really any better than Huby or England or Fifita or Pauli Pauli? Again, pretty evenly matched here in terms of quality in my opinion.

O'Loughlin - Quality player - misses a lot of games. Probably not the player he was a few years ago? Tinirau Arona plays loose for us atm. Arona made 50 odd tackles against Catalan last week - 2 interchanges down - he missed zero of those. O'Loughlin is the fashionable Rugby League name but again when it comes to it - on current form is he miles better than Arona? Not for me. It's a close one.

Where Wigan do have the upper hand is there depth and the conveyor belt of youngsters they have that are of a quality standard. Even in that department Wakefield are catching up bringing through the likes of Jowitt, Batchelor, Crowther in recent years and Luke Hooley on the fringes this year with Ackroyd.

The difference between Wigan and Wakefield regarding youngsters is that they are prepared to travel all over the Rugby areas to scoop up as many who are prepared to go to Wigan and then cherry pick. Oh, and break the recruitment rules, allegedly but I suppose that’s what success gets you, I don’t think we do bad at all in getting the quality of players to the hopefully first team standards, it’s what we do with them when they get there.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:47 am  

Big lads mate wrote:

The difference between Wigan and Wakefield regarding youngsters is that they are prepared to travel all over the Rugby areas to scoop up as many who are prepared to go to Wigan and then cherry pick. Oh, and break the recruitment rules, allegedly but I suppose that’s what success gets you, I don’t think we do bad at all in getting the quality of players to the hopefully first team standards, it’s what we do with them when they get there.

To be fair i do believe that Wakefield have a decent squad, its just getting the best out of them. Does chester know his best 1-17

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:57 am  

Adam_Harrison9 wrote:

A lot of people gave it the "oh this Wakey pack is big" at the start of the season e.t.c and I even bought into it. But upon reflection there is only Fifita who can mix it with the big boys. The rest are simply average or less. That's the truth of it and you only have to see it week in and week out for the evidence. The simple fact is at Wakefield we have classy backs. Johnstone, Tupou, BJB, MCB, Arundel and Lyne have all shown that they have class. For me the big question is down the middle. We lose the ruck constantly and our contact and line speed is crap.

In attack we lack depth, we don't run on to the ball, we don't have a last tackle option, we can't kick, we don't pass when we draw a defender and we don't even pass accurately (above the head or below the knees).

What concerns me about tonight is the fact that the players actually tried. They tried against a cas side missing Eden, Gale and Roberts and still didn't look like winning at any point. It was all too easy. Paul McShane made Reece Lyne look like he was running through treacle. I've been really optimistic all year. Even when we lost to Wigan, Warrington and Leeds I came away thinking we could have won that and I think we'll finish top 6. Tonight I wanted to turn the TV off after 65 minutes as I knew there was no coming back. The attacking structure is a shambles and for me that lies with the coach and the attack has been crap all year. Let's not gloss over that. The defence could be worse but the attack. Jesus. Out the back once, out the back again... die with the ball. Repeat. Run the ball on the last tackle... turnover. Kicking game? Crap. Pretty disillusioned with that.

Pauli Pauli - well done. Looked like he wanted to be there, put a good stint in. Was treated harshly by Hicks for 2 of the pens I thought.

Jowitt - Want the lad to do well. Thought he would. Don't know if he can make it and never have. Can you rely on his abilities as a fullback?

Hampshire/Miller - Kicking game is crap even with Finn so not gonna slate Rocky for it. Miller has been garbage for half of this year now. Never draws his man before passing the ball. Always passes it with another 10 yard infront of him. Is he scared?

Randell/Wood - Classy players. Should build the pack around them.

Pretty disillusioned after that. I saw the same mistakes and the same structures which makes me question the coaching. Sick of seeing players receive the ball on a standing start and sick of seeing the same set play. If dumb spectators that apparently know nothing about rugby can see this then why can't coaching staff? And if they can see it, why is nothing changing?

Have to agree with Adam Harrison Jowitt as a fullback is not our answer. To leave MCB out of a squad is scandolous Topou wants a ball of his own Miller is in & out of games he never takes the game by the scruff of the neck Finn is very slow & predictable never creates a gap for anyone. Hirst can't catch a ball. This all leads to one thing, I think Chris Chester has done as much as he canfor Wakey, He's now come up against a brick wall, His knowledge is not quite up to the standard of taking us any further. At this moment in time he's not sure which players to play & when. It's not a criticism of the guy but people do have limitations & I think he's reached his. After all he is still an inexperienced coach. last year he had help from a very experienced coach in JK & Some of the top clubs weren't firing on all cylinders this year they are & we haven't got the knowledge how to break things down & how to win games. I know certain members of this forum will end up calling me a troll for being honest but if any of the things I have said are untrue have a look at yourselves.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:03 pm  

We get rid of Chester and we're back to square 1, years of under performing. At least with Chester we stand a chance of building a good team over time. We don't have the luxury of being able to afford a world class coach

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:31 pm  

wakey warrior wrote:

Have to agree with Adam Harrison Jowitt as a fullback is not our answer. To leave MCB out of a squad is scandolous Topou wants a ball of his own Miller is in & out of games he never takes the game by the scruff of the neck Finn is very slow & predictable never creates a gap for anyone. Hirst can't catch a ball. This all leads to one thing, I think Chris Chester has done as much as he canfor Wakey, He's now come up against a brick wall, His knowledge is not quite up to the standard of taking us any further. At this moment in time he's not sure which players to play & when. It's not a criticism of the guy but people do have limitations & I think he's reached his. After all he is still an inexperienced coach. last year he had help from a very experienced coach in JK & Some of the top clubs weren't firing on all cylinders this year they are & we haven't got the knowledge how to break things down & how to win games. I know certain members of this forum will end up calling me a troll for being honest but if any of the things I have said are untrue have a look at yourselves.

Max Jowitt is not a problem atm, Scott Grix is the recognised FB and hopefully when the time comes to take over from Grix, Jowitt will be that much more experienced with more game time whether that's sharing with Grix or on loan in the championship.

Who do you drop for MCB? You could play Arundel in the centre and put Topou on the wing, MCB can't get past Johnstone and Jones Bishop so by putting Topou into the mix will make it even harder for him, How is MCB going to make a difference without the ball, I'm sure that once the wingers get the service they need the tries will come choose who they are.

Not sure why your having a pop at Miller and Finn when they've been as good as anybody else, as for Hirst he's played as good as any other prop this season, but because he dropped the ball twice last night he suddenly can't catch a ball, and because of this Chester has now run out of ideas' really!!.

Like most things in life it's a learning curve and I'm sure being a super league coach isn't any different, if as you say he's missing Kear and I don't doubt it for one minute then you should give the man a bit of slack and give him time to adjust to not having Kear's input, and by your own admission those clubs that weren't "firing on all cylinders" last year but are this season then surely that makes the task even harder, one other thing fwiw you just can't go into a shop and order a tailor made SL coach, you have to grow your own and give em time to mature with age, that's if you've got the patience which you don't seem to have.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:29 pm  

Still think we have the quality of players at the club to do better.
I have not enough knowledge to put my finger on the problem and wouldn't want to single out an individual for criticism BUT something is fundamentally wrong. We have superb finishers on the wings but I cannot recollect seeing many passes going out wide - Why? Part of it I think is that we are very slow at the ruck. We don't seem to have urgency.
Another fault that stands out a mile is seemingly submitting to the inevitable and standing back and allowing the opposition to run at us instead of getting up to them and getting in their face.
As for the size of the pack, at the end of the day it's how big your heart is not how long your legs are.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:44 pm  

Think the criticism of Topou is unfair. A centre is supposed to create space for a winger. What is he supposed to do? Just pass it to Johnstone and say "off you go", leaving Tom to be bullied into touch? Bill is supposed to advance himself, to put himself into space, and then slip it to Johnstone steaming up on his left.

The problem has been that the defences have been getting across and not giving Bill any room to play with.

I agree with Jinjer that last year was a slight false dawn. Warrington were unexpectedly poor. Saints didn't fire properly until Holbrook arrived, meaning that we were able to get higher than our resources should have allowed.

This year, we are seventh place almost half-way through the season with three winnable games to come. The teams above us are the ones you'd expect to be above us. We've got some wins when we haven't played that well. We've had some closes losses against good teams. We've had a couple of bad games. I remember the current champions had a couple of shockers last year.

Let's see where we are in June, with harder grounds and some winnable games behind us.

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:12 pm  

reedy wrote:

Don't know where the next win will come from. We are very average at best. No leadership. No heart. No Skill. Million pound game write all over us.

Ridiculous comment

Re: Poor Poor Poor : Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:14 pm  

Let's all calm down eh? I reckon the next few games will see some wins