Re: Toronto promoted : Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:33 pm  

I am not espousing a personal position on the issue of Toronto, I have pointed out issues on this previously !
However, now that Toronto are in SL, people - supporters of RL, are now being led to believe this type of expansion is not only good for the game but it is the way forward in particular future teams need/will be international major cities !! ??
Big money & tv rites will support this/these circumstances. !!!
Already, the SL board are being out flanked by the New make up of the RL board, three top experienced diverse board members ready to enact new changes, Ottawa are the next issue + use & other EU countries !!
Better get use to the final outcome, dates/s for final changes all to be realized !!

Re: Toronto promoted : Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:38 pm  

Depends what floats your boat really.
Personally, and as a dinosaur, I am quite happy for the game to remain largely in the M62 corridor as it always has been.
I get not extra buzz from Catalans, or London for that matter coming to BV and Toronto will be no different. I would prefer Featherstone to have got the nod by a country mile. Nothing will replace a local derby and personally I hope Toronto fail.

Re: Toronto promoted : Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:53 pm  

The whole Toronto scenario reminds me very much of the big, boom of American football over here in the eighties or nineties. US teams were coming over here and playing an English club at Wembley, I think it was. How long did that last? A couple of years before the bubble burst? I don't see many American Football teams springing up in the larger British cities after all these years. If Rugby breaks through in North America to any great degree I'm afraid it will be Union and not League.
Lets forget expansion and concentrate on promoting our game here, in the North of England.

Re: Toronto promoted : Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:30 pm  

Redscat wrote:

The whole Toronto scenario reminds me very much of the big, boom of American football over here in the eighties or nineties. US teams were coming over here and playing an English club at Wembley, I think it was. How long did that last? A couple of years before the bubble burst? I don't see many American Football teams springing up in the larger British cities after all these years. If Rugby breaks through in North America to any great degree I'm afraid it will be Union and not League.
Lets forget expansion and concentrate on promoting our game here, in the North of England.

to me the game needs derby games, it needs atmosphere and decent crowds and excitement. I’m afraid I think it’s too late to grow the game in the north, it would have been better York in than a Canadian team. The amateur game is dying on its feet, hardly any open age teams left in Wakefield, cas, ponty the junior game is struggling the seasons they play is all over the place and no one gets a grip and only a few players to go round. It’s even struggling in Wigan with even st pats not even supplying kids to Wigan’s scholarship. Add to that the money in Australia and any decent player will be off and a millionaire. I can only see the top teams taking over shortly and they will have in who they want Bradford for one with maybe one team from the Wakefield area it’s gonna come down to making money

Re: Toronto promoted : Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:29 pm  

MOPSEY LIVES ON wrote:

to me the game needs derby games, it needs atmosphere and decent crowds and excitement. I’m afraid I think it’s too late to grow the game in the north, it would have been better York in than a Canadian team. The amateur game is dying on its feet, hardly any open age teams left in Wakefield, cas, ponty the junior game is struggling the seasons they play is all over the place and no one gets a grip and only a few players to go round. It’s even struggling in Wigan with even st pats not even supplying kids to Wigan’s scholarship. Add to that the money in Australia and any decent player will be off and a millionaire. I can only see the top teams taking over shortly and they will have in who they want Bradford for one with maybe one team from the Wakefield area it’s gonna come down to making money

You're right Mopsey, and probably it is too late to grow the game in the north, but it's not too late to consolidate what you already have.
You mention established RL areas struggling, well that's going to get no better at all is it if we're more bothered about international SL.
I'm really at the wrong age to care now , SL is not what RL is all about and quite frankly the game is fast being a turn off for me.
RL fans frequently take the mick out of RU, but RL management can't hold a candle to how RU manages the game in this country just my opinion of course!

Re: Toronto promoted : Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:30 pm  

Strinket wrote:

Relocating a squad of has beens, second rate Aussies and a few mercenaries isn’t and never will be expansion. It’s just spreading the talent pool a little thinner.

Where are the young Canadian players? It’s been 3 years now and not one in their squad, not even a token pick against the lesser Championship teams.

How many amateur clubs are there over there? Any of the schools playing it?

It’s a freak show and the likes of McDermott, Wilkin and Noble are just milking the cash cow before its inevitable demise.

100 % this.
Knowledge of the game has spread - but the game hasn't expanded

Re: Toronto promoted : Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:37 pm  

Big lads mate wrote:

Their youth system and reserve grade will take care of that hold on a minute, here we go again.

Re: Toronto promoted : Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:16 am  

Sure I read somewhere a while back that if Toronto became a super league club,that the funding for away teams travel costs would stop

Re: Toronto promoted : Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:28 am  

It's a ridiculous and reductive argument to say that Toronto don't deserve a spot because they haven't done the hundred years + of hard graft that other clubs have done; that's like saying that emerging economies like China, India and Pakistan should stay in the dark ages, because we've had our industrial revolution already, so they don't get to have one. There are many issues with the inclusion of a Canadian team in a European SL, but length of service isn't one of them.

I have no fundamental issue with them being included as a way of hothousing the growth of a professional league in North America - because that is *actual* expansion that will have real and lasting impact on the game of RL. But if that's the plan, I'd like to see it - and it should contain some really strong and binding requirements on everyone involved, to ensure that the youth and community game is supported in Canada, and that the TW are making genuine efforts to create and nurture their own player base - by whatever means. At the moment, it's hard to see past a team of mercenaries and journeymen with absolutely no connection or roots in Canada, who are cashing in on what could very easily be a short term project that bears no fruit.

For that reason, if I'm the jury, I remain undecided; if their first season in SL sees an acceleration of the wider project to create a viable structure for the game in North America, then I'll happily sign up. If not, then the cynicism of many people will prove to be entirely justified.

Re: Toronto promoted : Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:46 am  

bren2k wrote:

It's a ridiculous and reductive argument to say that Toronto don't deserve a spot because they haven't done the hundred years + of hard graft that other clubs have done; that's like saying that emerging economies like China, India and Pakistan should stay in the dark ages, because we've had our industrial revolution already, so they don't get to have one. There are many issues with the inclusion of a Canadian team in a European SL, but length of service isn't one of them.

I have no fundamental issue with them being included as a way of hothousing the growth of a professional league in North America - because that is *actual* expansion that will have real and lasting impact on the game of RL. But if that's the plan, I'd like to see it - and it should contain some really strong and binding requirements on everyone involved, to ensure that the youth and community game is supported in Canada, and that the TW are making genuine efforts to create and nurture their own player base - by whatever means. At the moment, it's hard to see past a team of mercenaries and journeymen with absolutely no connection or roots in Canada, who are cashing in on what could very easily be a short term project that bears no fruit.

For that reason, if I'm the jury, I remain undecided; if their first season in SL sees an acceleration of the wider project to create a viable structure for the game in North America, then I'll happily sign up. If not, then the cynicism of many people will prove to be entirely justified.

I agree but ALL teams should be built from the bottom up. Do Toronto run a junior league etc etc, that's my issue, for me, it's not on.