Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:02 pm  

jonh wrote:

There are so many factors in that step up from youth to senior rugby.

Development is a key factor and also youth coaching.

Most of the last GB side were quartile 3 or 4 in their school years, think it was nearly 70% and also most of them didn’t get scholarship at first round of selection, probably down to lack of physical development compared to some of their peers. Not getting scholarship can end budding careers there and then it they are not mentally prepared/mature enough to realise it isn’t a disaster for them, again, some can’t see that.

I’ve seen loads of super star kids not make it because they struggle to deal with not being the big fish anymore and they also lack the skill set as they have been so dominant in their junior development they haven’t needed them. I get so frustrated when I see teams rely on their star player who is usually a freak for his age just using him to win games rather than to actually develop his skill and improve him as a player. It is so short sighted and unfair on that player even though they don’t think it is at the time.

Embracing that work ethic when stepping up is again key. Too many think they are superstars when they step up when actually they need to realise they are the bottom of the pile again and need to work harder than everyone else in the room.

Above is why I like Aydin he is an absolute grafter.

Coincidently I was catching up with the player I played with and against who went on to achieve more than any other in his career. Chatting about my youngest son who has decided he wants a crack at getting Scholarship and long term ambitions of playing for Trinity in SL.

The lad in question went on to win a World Cup all be it in the union code but he was never the most talented player in our team as kids. Natural athlete but not the best skills.

His exact words were this and I’m quoting from his message directly -

Tell him there are no certainties in this world, but talent without work ethic will always fail. Work ethic with a little talent can go all the way.

It’s advise I try to impart but it holds more credibility coming from someone like him than my as a dad.

That for me separates those that have the potential. It’s a mentality thing. Embracing and understanding that rugby is your profession and continuing to treat it that way when all the other distractions come your way particularly when you first take that step up.

Can't argue with that but I will add some players just fall out of love with the game and don't want the pressure or the bashing. I never played past 17 but I knew by then it was starting to hurt and I wasn't interested. You need a certain disregard for you're physical and mental welfare to play at the top level for any length of time. That's what they mean by ticker I suspect.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:37 pm  

Mark Colbeck, naturally gifted Rugby League player would have been international level.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:40 pm  

jonh wrote:

There are so many factors in that step up from youth to senior rugby.

Development is a key factor and also youth coaching.

Most of the last GB side were quartile 3 or 4 in their school years, think it was nearly 70% and also most of them didn’t get scholarship at first round of selection, probably down to lack of physical development compared to some of their peers. Not getting scholarship can end budding careers there and then it they are not mentally prepared/mature enough to realise it isn’t a disaster for them, again, some can’t see that.

I’ve seen loads of super star kids not make it because they struggle to deal with not being the big fish anymore and they also lack the skill set as they have been so dominant in their junior development they haven’t needed them. I get so frustrated when I see teams rely on their star player who is usually a freak for his age just using him to win games rather than to actually develop his skill and improve him as a player. It is so short sighted and unfair on that player even though they don’t think it is at the time.

Embracing that work ethic when stepping up is again key. Too many think they are superstars when they step up when actually they need to realise they are the bottom of the pile again and need to work harder than everyone else in the room.

Above is why I like Aydin he is an absolute grafter.

Coincidently I was catching up with the player I played with and against who went on to achieve more than any other in his career. Chatting about my youngest son who has decided he wants a crack at getting Scholarship and long term ambitions of playing for Trinity in SL.

The lad in question went on to win a World Cup all be it in the union code but he was never the most talented player in our team as kids. Natural athlete but not the best skills.

His exact words were this and I’m quoting from his message directly -

Tell him there are no certainties in this world, but talent without work ethic will always fail. Work ethic with a little talent can go all the way.

It’s advise I try to impart but it holds more credibility coming from someone like him than my as a dad.

That for me separates those that have the potential. It’s a mentality thing. Embracing and understanding that rugby is your profession and continuing to treat it that way when all the other distractions come your way particularly when you first take that step up.

I have actually sent a pic of the quote to my lad .he as ambitions to play the game at higheat level he can be it at amutuer or further up the ladder.so thank u for that.he is currently out daily working out with there been no club training and i hope it helps him.think one of biggest issue with junior rugby and its maybe somthing we may be abke to learn from down under is the amount of size difference in the junior game ive so the little lads are somtimes intimidated by the big lads which doesnt really teach either anything and even more so the big lads.think i woukd be right in saying its more a sized bases thing in Australia opposed to age...im sure your young one with right effort will be ok i know you say he may not always listen to you but he will knowing you will able teach him good things with your coaching role and where you went with your rugby.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:12 pm  

Luppylad wrote:

I have actually sent a pic of the quote to my lad .he as ambitions to play the game at higheat level he can be it at amutuer or further up the ladder.so thank u for that.he is currently out daily working out with there been no club training and i hope it helps him.think one of biggest issue with junior rugby and its maybe somthing we may be abke to learn from down under is the amount of size difference in the junior game ive so the little lads are somtimes intimidated by the big lads which doesnt really teach either anything and even more so the big lads.think i woukd be right in saying its more a sized bases thing in Australia opposed to age...im sure your young one with right effort will be ok i know you say he may not always listen to you but he will knowing you will able teach him good things with your coaching role and where you went with your rugby.

I shared it with all the lads I coach as I believe it is a great lesson be it for sport or life in general.

It also is a mantra the lad lived by which gives it more gravitas and what got him to where he was, eventually captaining England on a few occasions.

I thankfully don’t coach my youngest and he is in good hands with his coaches however he is putting a bit too much pressure on himself to get scholarship.

He however has asked to do weights or field work everyday since reading it.

The size issue is always a funny one. I’m not for sizing them up as I think some of the players thrive on taking on the bigger lads as juniors but others as you rightfully say don’t. It’s a really difficult one though and in an ideal world junior rugby would be more focussed on developing all players than winning, but the reality is, and I’ve been guilty of it too sometimes the focus is on winning at some players expense/lack of opportunity and I’ve always felt fairly disappointed in myself when that has happened regardless of the win.

I still firmly believe all levels below SL should be about developing players/and good citizens not winning including Academy but it is easier said than done sometimes in the thick of it.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:40 pm  

On the flip side of the coin I think sometimes fans expect too much of young players too soon there aren't that many Sam Tomkins around that can come in an instantly make an impact like he did.

Some home-grown players stick at there clubs as a squad player because it suits them and the club and they seem to go under the radar for even years until they start to make a real impact. Nathan Massey at Cas is a really good example of that, if he had left, I imagine he would have fizzled out, maybe play in the championship or even not be playing at all, and we would just put him in the same bracket as a lot of the names that crop up on this thread. As it plays out although not absolutely standout, Massey has turned out to be a good SL player and a key part of the Cas team. You can`t invest that sort of time in every young lad that has a bit of potential but if you did I think the majority of the time you would see a good SL standard player a few years down the line.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:32 pm  

jonh wrote:

I shared it with all the lads I coach as I believe it is a great lesson be it for sport or life in general.

It also is a mantra the lad lived by which gives it more gravitas and what got him to where he was, eventually captaining England on a few occasions.

I thankfully don’t coach my youngest and he is in good hands with his coaches however he is putting a bit too much pressure on himself to get scholarship.

He however has asked to do weights or field work everyday since reading it.

The size issue is always a funny one. I’m not for sizing them up as I think some of the players thrive on taking on the bigger lads as juniors but others as you rightfully say don’t. It’s a really difficult one though and in an ideal world junior rugby would be more focussed on developing all players than winning, but the reality is, and I’ve been guilty of it too sometimes the focus is on winning at some players expense/lack of opportunity and I’ve always felt fairly disappointed in myself when that has happened regardless of the win.

I still firmly believe all levels below SL should be about developing players/and good citizens not winning including Academy but it is easier said than done sometimes in the thick of it.

Thats where wakefield excell in for me there not intrested of whst league your in or how many trophies you won itd about how they can develop you as both player and a person bith on and off the pitch and games they want to win but it mord about what can be learnt and taking from the game rather than the result.

Its good ya young wanting to work hard in achieving what he wants but guess like all kids he needs to be out there playing hopefully it will happen soon.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:36 pm  

homme vaste wrote:

On the flip side of the coin I think sometimes fans expect too much of young players too soon there aren't that many Sam Tomkins around that can come in an instantly make an impact like he did.

Some home-grown players stick at there clubs as a squad player because it suits them and the club and they seem to go under the radar for even years until they start to make a real impact. Nathan Massey at Cas is a really good example of that, if he had left, I imagine he would have fizzled out, maybe play in the championship or even not be playing at all, and we would just put him in the same bracket as a lot of the names that crop up on this thread. As it plays out although not absolutely standout, Massey has turned out to be a good SL player and a key part of the Cas team. You can`t invest that sort of time in every young lad that has a bit of potential but if you did I think the majority of the time you would see a good SL standard player a few years down the line.

That’s a good point.

There is also a lure of more money to drop down sometimes.

Players can be on a low wage in a full time environment or be senior player at a younger age picking up a higher payment to play part time and also fit a job in around it.

So many factors to it as highlighted in this thread, which is why I have so much admiration for anyone that makes it to the highest levels of our sport.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:40 pm  

Luppylad wrote:

Thats where wakefield excell in for me there not intrested of whst league your in or how many trophies you won itd about how they can develop you as both player and a person bith on and off the pitch and games they want to win but it mord about what can be learnt and taking from the game rather than the result.

Its good ya young wanting to work hard in achieving what he wants but guess like all kids he needs to be out there playing hopefully it will happen soon.

He is just moving into the 14s this year and after a year out who knows how he and the others will respond.

I do worry about my age group (16s) and the 15s more though.

I feel some cracking players who didn’t get scholarship may be lost to the pro game as they have developed so much physically in the time they have missed but may not get the opportunity to show it at an important time of their rugby pathway.

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:10 pm  

jonh wrote:

He is just moving into the 14s this year and after a year out who knows how he and the others will respond.

I do worry about my age group (16s) and the 15s more though.

I feel some cracking players who didn’t get scholarship may be lost to the pro game as they have developed so much physically in the time they have missed but may not get the opportunity to show it at an important time of their rugby pathway.

Deffo regarding 16s think there will be a few not returning i do worry weather my lad team end up with enough lads as numbers are dwindling i know or rather been told kippax whst would now be 16s folded.i do think the players who believe and want to go further themselves will return and they still slwsys have chance collage rugby can also help there few top plsyers out there who didnt get scholr like johnstone so there alwsyd hope

Re: Ones that got away : Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:26 pm  

Luppylad wrote:

Deffo regarding 16s think there will be a few not returning i do worry weather my lad team end up with enough lads as numbers are dwindling i know or rather been told kippax whst would now be 16s folded.i do think the players who believe and want to go further themselves will return and they still slwsys have chance collage rugby can also help there few top plsyers out there who didnt get scholr like johnstone so there alwsyd hope

Kippax have gone and Oulton were on the verge however most of the lads that wanted to keep playing from Kippax joined them so at least they were not lost to the game.

Some cracking players in that 16s age group that didn’t get scholarship but probably would have been picked up last year had we had a league.

I’ve got 2 lads in my 16s who I’m sure would have pushing to get noticed last year. Both are still with me and both have trained like mad throughout however I worry what effect not playing will have had on them.